Hello everybody.
Past week I was expecting a drop Thursday and/or Wednesday afternoon or Friday morning.
The drop came on-time making Thursday the lowest point.Though what didn't appear was the puke. So it was a mini-me version of what I was expecting, it follow the shape or pattern expected but failed in the intensity. So lowest point but no puke.
Could it be that the bottom is in? I'm going to wait a little more. In my post of Feb 15 Triplets I mentioned that Thursday 17 was the last day that I was going to wait for the beginning of a decent drop.
Friday made the top and Sunday night start dropping. So the lesson there is learn not to go too crazy with the exact day because sometimes doesn't work with that kind of precision.(Or at least I can not see it yet).
That's the reason why I' giving it a little more time unless an upside impulse is absolutely clear. For the time being I consider the "puke" higly probable during the next 7-10 days if we stay in this area.So instead of consolidation I'd be more inclined for a drop.
In case of an at least slightly positive s&p 500 for these 10 days I will pay special attention to CSCO to the upside. Will see.
The website with predictions is advancing, had some technical problems with the registrar but in the next few days will start appearing at Dastrostockmarket.com.
Next week I'll bring again the list of individual stocks and some posible new candidates according to their recent past performance and particularly during this week.
Good luck
Dan
Thanks for the thoughts, Dastro.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to comment about calling tops or bottoms.
Don't.
I've been getting out at night, in cash, then re-entering the next day. It's working quite well.
By doing that, when (like ANF did to me) somebody decides to move their stock overnight, when us common people can't trade and stop orders don't work, I don't get screwed.
So every day starts a new setup opportunity for me. I know opportunities come along like girlfriends: one every 10 minutes or so.
Then I don't get DNC'ed at night. Which would hurt a lot...I ain't built for it.
Roger Cohen was on Bloomie this AM. When asked about the financial crisis, and Bear, etc, Roger Cohen said "search for solutions rather than villians".
ReplyDeleteBeing a villian himself, and probably not wanting to spend the rest of his days in an 8x10 barred enclosure with a toilet with no seat or paper, that's exactly the response I'd expect.
But Rock - What good is a girlfriend if you don't take her out on a date?
ReplyDeleteYou see Lucy Liu is my girlfriend she just does not know it yet, maybe some day she will understand our destiny are intertwined, just not today.
Mutt
@Mutt:
ReplyDeleteI understand. It's the same thing for me with Lucy's sister, Betty.
@Mutt
ReplyDeleteBut my eyes aren't dead yet.
@Dastro:
ReplyDeleteThings are looking up. Greece is saved. Not only did QE1 continue with reinvestment, but QE2 will continue with reinvestment as well. (I'm not sure how this works; QE2 bought mid-term treasuries, like 10 year or so....does that mean that we have to wait 10 years for the reinvestment? if so, BFD.)
The Euro is saved.
George will get the vote of confidence.
I'll be watching the spy channel (oh, I couldn't wait to say that) to see if the SPY breaks out of it's downward channel, but I suspect it will soon
What's not to love about this market? Up up, and awayyyyyyyyyy
@Mannwich:
ReplyDeleteOne more to add to the short list:
Nokia announced that all its new smartphones will use the microsoft mobile OS.
Well, too bad there's not much left to short, since Nokia is at 5.85, and frankly I'm not sure how you buy back your position if the stock price goes to 0.
On Bloomie this AM, they were saying that RIMM looks good as a buy. It's PE is around 4, and the S&P (and AAPL) is around 15, so it could be a M&A target.
Anywbody who M&A's RIMM is a short in my book.
It's interesting, XRT and RTH have started to establish an upchannel on the daily chart.
ReplyDeleteLooking at the SPX weekly and daily, both are oversold
This is the time, ladies and gentlemen, when you invest and ride this market right back to overbought.
This is the one time per year you'll make the most money you'll ever make.
Where can you go to optimize your return?
I think AAPL is a candidate. It's depressed, but it's revenues and profits are outstanding. I'd love to hear other comments about who's depressed and a value investment.
Here comes our little rally. But will it be sold into like other recent ones lately? I say yes. We won't breach the OBL top highs or even likely the lower Manny top highs.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you about Nokia and RIMM, Rock. Dead companies walking. Both of them. They both will likely be acquired, probably stupidly by a dinosaur like Microsoft, who loves buying up dead companies as trophies and doing nothing with them.
ReplyDeleteWe have rallied over the highs of the last four days, which I would say qualifies to call this a rally.
ReplyDeleteAgreed Denise. Let's see if it has real legs though (meaning, can we approach and breach the prior tops).
ReplyDeleteOf note, BAC, and C did not make new lows with the S&P 500.
ReplyDeleteNor did XLF.
We need the financials to rally if this thing is going to have any legs, financials make up more than 20% of the S&P.
Manny,
ReplyDeleteI take it one day at a time. Having gone long three times and stopped out three times in the past two weeks, I finally went long again.
All of my internals were pointing to a rally from Friday's close of data:
ReplyDeleteBoth the NYSE and the NASD:
OBOS 5 MA
OBOS 10 MA
OBOS 30 MA
ADVANCES
CUMULATIVE TICK
NEW LOWS
UPVOL/TVOL
But the final arbiter is price action. All the indicators in the world are meaningless if the price action does not confirm.
ReplyDeleteSo anything can happen from here, so my stop is set and we will watch the price action.
ReplyDeleteFib 38.2% comes in about 1291.81.
ReplyDeleteAnd, the 3LB of the s&P500 number of stocks trading higher than their 50 day MA looks like we've got a turn-around.
ReplyDeleteWe'll see if this holds. Looks like the VXX has started up a little.
Morning folks!
ReplyDeleteI forgot to add that the McClellan Oscillator also was pointing to a rally.
ReplyDeleteAlso the VIX did not make a new high yesterday, but I do not usually put a great deal of faith in using the VIX but it does confirm the rest of the indicators.
ReplyDeleteTransports also showed exceptional RS.
ReplyDeleteAs did HGX-X, housing
and IAI, Broker Dealers,
and ICF, Realty Majors.
I've been watching the VIX quite a bit and it seems like it only goes nuts on higher volume. Lower volume and it always tanks. Inverse to the stock market.
ReplyDeleteF up quite a bit today too.
ReplyDeleteI'll put up a post this evening with some of the charts that illustrate this.
ReplyDeleteI thought this was good over at TBP. Food for thought here:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/06/stocktwits-qa-transcript/
@ctringham: What is the ‘normal’ correction size after a 100% rally like the one we had over the past 2 years?
@Ritholtz: Only 2 prior examples: 1933 and 1938 (100% rally following 50% or more selloff) Each time, nearly all the gains were lost!
I thought this was very good:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/06/alex-andreou-democracy-vs-mythology-%e2%80%93-the-battle-in-syntagma-square.html
This also is a must read by Joe Nocera, if we are ever to reign in the banks and keep them from over leveraging the reserve requirements must be raised:
ReplyDeleteBankings Moment of Truth
If investment banks like Merrill Lynch had had adequate capital requirements, they would not have been able to pile on so much disastrous debt. If A.I.G. had been required to put up enough capital against its credit default swaps, it’s quite likely that the government would not have had to take over the company. If the big banks had not been able to so easily game their capital requirements, they might not have needed taxpayer bailouts. A real capital cushion would have allowed the banks to absorb the losses instead of the taxpayers. That’s the role capital serves.
But why keep a silly thing called "reserves" when you can pay yourself big bonuses based on fake profits and then have Uncle Stupid and his merry band of taxpaying Sheeple bail you out and then subsequently get them to agree to be "austeritized" for the greater good, while you, the very cause of the mess give back nothing (including the previous ill gotten gains, otherwise known as "stolen money") in the process? What's not to like if you're a banker at at TBTF?
ReplyDeleteLooks like the bloom is off the fat rose in NJ otherwise known as "Chris Christie":
ReplyDeletehttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/21/chris-christie-vice-president_n_881168.html
Manny,
ReplyDeleteSo interesting to hear a Greek whine about his country, I don't have a great deal of sympathy.
A reposting of Michael Lewis's fine article Beware of Greeks Bearing Bondsis in order.
The scale of Greek tax cheating was at least as incredible as its scope: an estimated two-thirds of Greek doctors reported incomes under 12,000 euros a year—which meant, because incomes below that amount weren’t taxable, that even plastic surgeons making millions a year paid no tax at all. The problem wasn’t the law—there was a law on the books that made it a jailable offense to cheat the government out of more than 150,000 euros—but its enforcement. “If the law was enforced,” the tax collector said, “every doctor in Greece would be in jail.” I laughed, and he gave me a stare. “I am completely serious.” One reason no one is ever prosecuted—apart from the fact that prosecution would seem arbitrary, as everyone is doing it—is that the Greek courts take up to 15 years to resolve tax cases.
Manny,
ReplyDeleteWhich is why the bankers are fighting so hard against any increase in the reserve requirements.
It seems to me that since the government bailed them out the banks should have absolutely no say in what the new regulations will be.
But that is not possible as the people making the laws are bought and paid for advocates for the banks.
Another reason why there should be no banks allowed to donate to campaigns.
The corruption in Greece is so breathtaking that I think they should never be bailed out. If they cannot pay collect the taxes owed, nor reduce the size of their bloated government, or raise the retirement age (55, men, 50 women) then they will be looking for more bail outs every year.
ReplyDeleteI say let Athens burn.
True Denise, but I do have a fair amount of sympathy for the regular people who did the right thing and are now paying for other people's misfeasance (namely those who refuse to pay taxes and/or took on too much debt).
ReplyDeleteWell, the rally to the 38.2 fib was pretty easy to achieve. Of course, I am a genius for pointing this out.
ReplyDeleteNext stop 1292.75, ES, and the 50% fib is at 1301.64.
We are at the highest point since 6/6/11.
It seems that the U.S. has many parallels with Greeece though, in terms of the resistance to pay taxes, especially among our most fortunate of peoples. That's a slippery slide to Greece-dom if you ask me.
ReplyDeleteMaybe if Greece goes down, the people will finally stand up and demand a more just tax system?
ReplyDeleteManny,
ReplyDeleteYou need to read the article. It seems like very few people did the right thing in Greece. Of course, if everyone cheats on their taxes, then it would be hard to be honest in that type of society. It is very difficult to be an honest citizen in a country that for generations has been corrupt.
@Denise: Yeah, I read it, but find it hard to believe that EVERYONE was doing it. Maybe most were, for sure.
ReplyDeleteI honestly think that's our future in the U.S. because the leaders of a country set the tone and when the Sheeple slowly see the way to get ahead is to cheat like our leaders do, then everyone eventually follows suit. Most of the blame goes to the top of the food chain, if you ask me. They set the tone for everyone else on what's acceptable behavior in a society and country.
The primary difference in Greece is that they are illegal tax evaders, most of our tax evaders do so legally. There are unfair tax breaks written into our revenue code that benefit a chosen few.
ReplyDeleteManny,
ReplyDeleteWhen you have a cash based economy it is very easy to cheat. Plus there is little enforcement, punishment and stigma to not paying taxes. You are looked upon as a fool if you do. One hand does not know what the other hand is doing in Greece.
Which is why our government cracked down on the cash businesses like restaurants because the wait staff didn't claim their full amount of tips.
@Denise: Are you sure about that? I think there's A LOT of illegal tax evasion going on that goes unpunished at the higher levels, and without a doubt quite a bit of borderline stuff that goes on as well.
ReplyDeleteBottom line is this is what happens in an overly individualistic "every man, woman, and child for themselves" breakdown of a community. When trust is lost in each other and the system, this is what you get. I think we'll see many more Greece's in the near future, probably even here in the U.S. someday. It's a long, slow slide but that's the slope we're on right now.
Denise and Manny - In Greece people cheat on their taxes, here, corporations cheat on their taxes. . . .
ReplyDeleteManny,
ReplyDeleteSure, not everyone cheats, those who must report their income can't, but the rest do, apparently.
If there is no incentive to change, why change? If they can get bailed out and still have a fully corrupt system of government, they will never change, and they will need more bailouts.
If they have to put pressure on the whole country to get them to reform then so be it. If they don't want to reform then that is ok, too, but they can figure out how to pay their own debts.
It's like giving a spendthrift an unlimited credit card and never requiring accountability.
Denise - I'm not sure the "legal" way US Corporations cheat on their taxes is morally equivalent people in Greece cheat. . .
ReplyDeleteJust my two cents.
Exactly Thor! I fail to see how the U.S. is that much different than Greece. Maybe we're not there full blown yet, but we're getting there where you're considered a "chump" if you follow any rules that are set by our betters but not followed.
ReplyDelete@Denise: I agree they shouldn't be bailed out, but let's face it, any bailout isn't really a "bail out" at all, but a way for other entities to impose their will on Greece and likely steal their public assets, thus making the people more poor. I say write down the debt and force the bondholders and banks to take losses. Let Greece leave the Euro. The same thing is going to happen with other nations, including our own, although we'll just print to cover it (which is still a default in my book). There's still way too much debt in the system. Adding more on top of it solves nothing and in fact makes the problem worse. They should do what Iceland did and walk.
ReplyDeleteAlso - I think it's a bit of a stretch to pin the majority of the problems going on in Greece today on citizens avoiding their taxes. I think that's a red herring. Tax cheating buy citizens may be a part of the problem, but I would argue that it's nowhere near at the top of the list with what ails Greece today.
ReplyDeleteAnd remember, it's the banks who are demanding payment in full on ever increasing interest rates. How much of what Greece is struggling with today is caused by tax cheating vs sky high interest rates? How tough would things be in Greece today if they were paying say, 4% on all that debt?
Manny,
ReplyDeleteI think that they have estimated that our underground economy is 15%, they don't know the exact amount.
Sure, there is lots of unreported or misreported income here, but in Greece it is the way of life.
How many surgeons could get away here making a million dollars and report $12k of income?
I am not saying that the US doesn't have tax cheats or is not corrupt, I am saying that Greece has a culture of corruption, tax evasion, and incredibly wasteful government spending which is what got them into this mess. Now they have to be bailed out, but they don't want the reforms that go along with it.
or look at it this way - how tough would things be in this country if WE had to pay 12% on our debt?
ReplyDeleteThey would be far worse than things are in Greece today. I think the days of blaming tax cheats in Greece ended with their first bailout. Now it's about sucking the country dry to feed the banks, not making them pay their due.
Did either of you actually read the article?
ReplyDeleteMy point was not a comparison to us, or that tax cheats were the primary reason for the problems.
See my 11:50 comment.
My point is that Greece is corrupt and that is their whole problem. They got into this debt problem because they are corrupt. Count the ways that contribute to the corruption. If they do not change their ways, the corruption continues. And they cannot pay their debts.
Plus you need to read the article to get what I am saying. I cannot quote the entire article.
@Denise: To reiterate: Yes, I read the article. I'm not saying they shouldn't change their ways, but I AM saying to lump all of the Greek people together in this mess would be like lumping us ALL together here in the U.S. There are different degrees of guilt here. Some have quite a bit and others have very little to none at all. That's all I'm saying. The wealthy enjoy the fruits of all of the upside but very little of the downside when austerity is imposed. That falls on the little guy who had little to no upside during the go-go times. How is that just?
ReplyDeleteDenise - I did read the article and I still disagree with you. Let's just leave it at that. You appear to be arguing that what's going on in Greece right now was caused by corruption and tax cheating. I think that argument is weak. The banks have every bit as much fault in the causes of this mess. Listening to you try to pin so much blame on tax cheats in Greece is like listening to people in other states blame the electricity problems in California from a decade ago on our lack of infrastructure build-out. None of us knows what the real story is behind all of this and won't for years.
ReplyDeleteRight now I'm choosing to ignore the "it's the Greek People's own fault" meme' because I have a sinking suspicion most of that will turn out to be false.
Again, let's just agree to disagree. Clearly we're not going to see eye to eye on this topic.
You don't feel bad for this person? How are Greece's problems her fault at all? She did the right things her whole life, and I'm quite sure there are many others.
ReplyDeleteMy mother, who is nearly 70, who worked all her life for the Archaeology Department of the Ministry of Culture, who paid tax, national insurance and pension contributions for over 45 years, deducted at the source (as they are for the vast majority of decent hard-working people – it is the rich that can evade), has had her pension cut to less than £400 a month. She faces the same rampantly inflationary energy and food prices as the rest of Europe.
Another one:
ReplyDeleteA good friend’s granddad, Panagiotis K., fought a war 70 years ago – on the same side as the rest of Western democracy. He returned and worked 50 years in a shipyard, paid his taxes, built his pension. At the age of 87 he has had to move back to his village so he can work his “pervoli” – a small arable garden – planting vegetables and keeping four chickens. So that he and his 83 year old wife might have something to eat.
Thor,
ReplyDeleteThen please explain to me how Greece got into this mess? $1.2 trillion Euros?
"That was the good news. The long-term picture was far bleaker. In addition to its roughly $400 billion (and growing) of outstanding government debt, the Greek number crunchers had just figured out that their government owed another $800 billion or more in pensions. Add it all up and you got about $1.2 trillion, or more than a quarter-million dollars for every working Greek."
Please illustrate how the Greek GOVERNMENT came to owe $400 billion? And with $800 billion more in pensions owed?
How does any government fund itself? By taking in revenue. What is revenue? Tax dollars.
How does a government fund it's self when tax revenues fall short? By selling government bonds.
Again, please explain.
Denise - sorry, we'll agree to disagree. I'm really not interesting in trying to win a debate here. You and I simply disagree. Leave it at that.
ReplyDeleteI think we need to make a distinction between the Greek government and their elite masters and the Greek rank and file, SOME of which are guilty of tax evasion and part of the problem, for sure, but I think it's a big distinction worth making nevertheless. Start at the top of the food chain and work downward though, not the other way around, which is what they're doing by trying to make the least fortunate pay for the sins of mostly the most fortunate. Pretty shameful if you ask me.
ReplyDeleteManny,
ReplyDeleteWe can all conjure up sob stories about the poor little guy who was screwed by his government, his former employer, or life. The poor grandfather having to move home just so he could raise some food so he could eat was particularly moving. Not. (Greek families are especially close and no one lets Granma and Granpa starve)
People suffer in all countries due to their government actions.
If the Greek government does not reform then I suppose you will be happy to chip in so the poor Greek grandma and retired government workers will have better lives? Without reform they will have to be bailed out year, after year, after year. And the suffering will never get better.
Manny,
ReplyDeleteThat is the whole point of reform, to make those who have not paid, PAY. To extract the most from those who have the most. (which will never happen here, either)
I never suggested that only the people on the bottom of the ladder should pay.
I'm not saying they shouldn't reform, but I'm also not in favor of the bailouts, most of which simply because it's not a "bailout" of the Greek people at all, but forced mass indentured servitude to the banks and bondholders. Reform can happen without the bailouts. Leave the Euro, take the pain that goes with it and then the people en masse need to demand and enact real reforms. It was easier for Iceland because they weren't in the Euro to begin with, but Greece can do something similar. I say it will be less pain (although still painful) to take that route.
ReplyDeleteThey will still have to reform even if they default and leave the Euro because theoretically they'd lose access to global capital markets for a long time under their own currency if they don't. Or maybe they won't if bankers are still happy to lend them money? For me, reform also has to happen among the BANKSTERS, who lent the money and have the FIRST responsiblity to do so responsibly. Where are the reforms on that front? Answer: nowwhere to be seen. Reform should happen everywhere, including and first and foremost at the top, no? Once this happens, then it will be far easier to carry out real reforms with everyone else.
ReplyDeleteOK I lied :P
ReplyDeleteDenise - you're making assumptions based on what you are reading online. As am I. You have no idea what the circumstances behind Greeces debt really are. You have no idea whether or not it was the bankers themselves who encouraged Greece that they could borrow their way out of a tax problem by lying to them and telling them that they could easily repay it all.
The banks are the one's who loaned Greece the money in the first place, they are the one's who loaned money to a country (and still continue to do so!) that any half way competent analyst would have shown had no hope of every repaying them. If the banks had done their job and not loaned them the money in the first place we wouldn't be in the mess. It's the same issue as Subprime loans in this country. You're trying to pin the cause of this problem on "tax cheats" when I think you are missing the forest for the trees.
Reform (and true "sacrifice") must happen on all sides for this to work. That's the bottom line. Start at the top with banksters and bondholders and move down the food chain and real reform will happen. Otherwise, there will be ugliness.
ReplyDeleteDenise - don't you think the people of Greece have already paid enough of a price? Or is there even more you think they should lose to make up for cheating on their taxes? These people, will already lose almost everything. It's time for the banks to pay, not the people. Default on the loans, and face the consequences.
ReplyDeleteWhen that finally DOES happen, you just watch how quickly the bankers come back with their "loans".
For a counterpoint on Greece:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/21/opinion/21iht-edcohen21.html?_r=1&hp
I thought it was pretty balanced. On another note, did CV or AT take over Denise's account today? LOL. I kid, I kid. We can agree to disaagree here in our little knitting club.
From the article. I think "global free trade" is dying a slow death.
ReplyDelete"Like protesters in Spain, they feel the poor and unemployed are paying for the errors of politicians, the evasions of the rich, and the whole globalized system that rewards the tech-savvy initiated while punishing those left behind.
Their anger is understandable.
In many ways the euro crisis, the European crisis, is an apt symbol of our times. A borderless order conceived by technocrats, sustained over a heady period by low interest rates, appreciated by the moneyed classes who made more money, is today facing popular revolt combined with the relentless pressure of its contradictions.
Strikes and violent protest are one measure of a Europe that now leaves many citizens unmoved by the great achievements of European integration. Open borders are beginning to close again. Turkey is turning its back on the Union. Germany has checked out from its postwar European idealism. America lambasts Europe for its military fecklessness. Many Greeks and Spaniards feel Europe is no more than a scam."
Manny- hahahaha. It's good when we disagree! :-)
ReplyDeleteI might not agree with Denise on this topic, but I very much respect what she has to say about it.
Me too, Thor. It's all good. I don't think we're actually that far apart here, to be honest.
ReplyDeleteBesides, it's the disagreements I think that sharpen our minds and allow us to look at topics in a different light.
ReplyDeleteForecast high of 115 tomorrow in the desert. Wish I was there :-(
ReplyDeleteGood article
ReplyDeletehttp://www.pimco.com/EN/Insights/Pages/School-Daze-School-Daze-Good-Old-Golden-Rule-Days.aspx
School Daze, School Daze
Good Old Golden Rule Days
* The past several decades have witnessed an erosion of our manufacturing base in exchange for a reliance on wealth creation via financial assets.
* Fiscal balance alone will not likely produce 20 million jobs over the next decade. Government must take a leading role in job creation.
* A growing number of skeptics wonder whether college is worth the time or the cost.
Bet you a quarter QE3 moves heavily to infrastructure
ReplyDeleteThor - From your 3:47 "Government must take a leading role in job creation"
ReplyDeleteI know you are refrencing the article (An article I have not read) But do you think that goverment should take a leading role in job creation?
Mutt
P.S. Sounds like you will need so sun screen tomorrow.
(3:48)
ReplyDeleteIf they cared they would have had QE1 move into infrastucture rebuilding, instead they took our money and gave it to the bad guys.
So my bet is, if they do QE3, it goes straight to the TBTF again.
Mutt
Mutt - Absolutely! There is a place in this country for Government and many things the government has done have worked out exceedingly well for this country.
ReplyDeleteThe GI Bill comes to mind. That massive government program had quite a bit to do with the success of this nation after WWII.
Thor - I whole heartly agree with you.
ReplyDeleteWithout the goverment we would not have many of our vital services, infastructure or national security.
At the same time once things become politizied, things start to get corrupted and maybe it is because I have never paid attention to certain things before, but it sure seems we are gettting more and more corrupted.
I guess I am not so much asking do you think the governement can do anything, but do you believe they will do anything to help out the common man, the people who are the back bone of our country?
Mutt
@DSS
ReplyDeleteYour(11:50),
I completly agree! 100%! THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH!
Actually, I already hightlighted that quote here several months ago. But, why did the banks lent money knowing they'll not get paid?
I am afraid same thing may happen in emerging markets, i.e. India. The top layer(elites) are corrupt beyond belief. I mostly read Indian papers in the evening to keep up to date(because we have business, home, land there), but it's not my favourite, fun thing to do. I know I'll read about stomach churrning stories.
ICan
"dss said...
ReplyDeleteThe corruption in Greece is so breathtaking that I think they should never be bailed out. If they cannot pay collect the taxes owed, nor reduce the size of their bloated government, or raise the retirement age (55, men, 50 women) then they will be looking for more bail outs every year.
I say let Athens burn.
June 21, 2011 11:50 AM"
~~~~~~~
Denise. Agree completely with that sentiment. Also, anyone idiotic enough to lend them those kinds of bucks also deserve to take a "haircut."
The lenders will need to be happy with the future Drachma/Euro exchange rate.
Mutt - No, actually. And that's the sad thing. There is a place for government in our society, there is a very big place, and there are many things we need the government to do. From making sure our water is safe to drink, to ensuring that we aren't being poisoned by toxic Chinese imports, or killed by poorly developed drugs.
ReplyDeleteHowever
Our government seems exceedingly bad at doing anything at all. So, although I am defending governments role in our society, I would in no way defend our government
And maybe that's our common ground Denise. Both the people of Greece, as well as the banks who stupidly lent them money (after GS told them how to lie to get into the Euro!) need to pay. If I had to choose between who should pay more, I'd say the bankers, they should lose everything. The people of Greece are most definitely going to be paying for the profligacy of their ways.
ReplyDeleteMutt - Check it out!
ReplyDeleteCurrent - 110 ° F
Wed, Jun 22 - Sunny
115 ° F / 82 ° F
Thu, Jun 23 - Sunny
112 ° F / 78 ° F
Sadly, I'm not out in the desert :-(
ReplyDelete@AT: I agree with that. Like I said, I don't think Denise and I/Thor really disagree all that much, just on semantics. I think the blame falls on the banksters first, then the Greek government, then the Greek people who took part in this orgy of irresponsibility and greed. So the pain should be shared in some fashion, but we all know it won't be. I certainly don't think there should be more stupid can-kicking bailouts at this point, but we know there likely will be.
ReplyDeleteLet's face it, pain is coming Greece's way regardless of if there's "reform" or not. They have no good choices left but he best one is to go the route of Iceland, convert back to their own currency and start anew from there. That will be painful enough but is clearly the best choice for the nation as a whole, but not the banksters and the elites who have a bigger interest in kicking the can down the road while imposing even longer term pain and serfdom on the Greek people in the process.
ReplyDeleteManny - I would agree with that. I think the Drachma will be back very soon.
ReplyDeleteBut then think about that statement and what that implies . . . for after that . . . :-/
@Thor: Why do you think the bankers are fighting that route the most? Because it will likely precipitate a chain of defaults in Europe and then eventually in the U.S. by a system that simply has way too much debt in it. Of course, we'll just print, but that's still a "default" in my book.
ReplyDeleteIt's a good thing we have the most gold
ReplyDeleteIcan (7:50) that is what confuses me the most, WHY are banks lending money>
ReplyDeleteThey know they either have to pass their losses onto the unexpection people who have not befitted from the lending or take a hair cut.
And I honestly believe the TBTF think we the unexpecting will give in before they have to take a hair cut.
I truly hope your friends, family and people stand up and fight for their rights.
Mutt
Andy - Where I grew up as long as someone stood behind their words they where always permitted to speak their minds.
ReplyDeleteWith my own eyes I have see disputes settled and arguments started over a few words and or differing view points.
I have personally experienced saying the wrong thing that has actually (Unknowingly)set off a family fued.
With that being said - only you may know whatis in your heart, but their are some here who may be questioning what motivates your heart.
It is not my business to quetion your heart.
All I know is today, you are NOT who you were yesterday and you will not be tomorrow who you are today.
But you are more who you were 3 years ago then who you may be 10 years from now.
Trust me I do not always agree with Denise as she leans too far left for me, Oh I respect her greatly and enjoy (most of) her arguments, but I do NOT always agree with her as well with, Thor, Mannwich, Ican, Dan, Rock or several others to name a few.
But they all have something worthy to say and have always been respectful in saying it.
You my man also have great wisdom and insight and I respect it.
However several other people here are under the belief (Only my assumption) you may be trying to stir up trouble (NOT!!!!!!!! from your posting tonight, but from previous postings)
All I got to say is although I do not always agree with your view point, just say your piece, but put your name on your words and if you do not mean them in an inflammatory way ("Hey Mutt, Your Mamma is a Bitch" - You NEVER said that, just trying to make a point)
You got my support.
Mangy Mutt.
Thor - Wasn't it just last week (Maybe the week before) that you guys were getting rain and 65%.
ReplyDeleteIsn't this weather crazy?
Now is it the weather or just that we have finally reached the age we (kinda) care about these things.
Mutt