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Thursday, November 18, 2010

Unemployment Discrimination

Short and sweet for what should be a more interesting trading day than yesterday.

I heard this piece on NPR on my way in this morning and couldn't believe my ears. Companies not wanting to hire people unless they already have a job? I suppose that does make a sort of sense, people who have been unemployed may not have the freshest skills and may not have been the top performers in the first place.

Is there much hope for the long term unemployed at this point? If not, what should we, as a society, do about it? There are many people out there today, who very strongly believe that the long term unemployed should be left to their own and kicked off the government teat. What does that say about our society?

Job Seekers Find Bias Against The Unemployed

82 comments:

  1. "There are many people out there today, who very strongly believe that the long term unemployed should be left to their own and kicked off the government teat. What does that say about our society?"

    it says there aren't enough jobs.

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  2. Thor- My wife and I have had this discussion quit a bit in the last year.

    Twice in the last year she has gone through the process of hiring people. What she has seen are a lot of freshly graduated college people who think the degree gives them a right to higher pay. And she has also seen a lot of longish term unemployed people who think they should get more then the job will pay.

    Many of these people also think they are going to be hired into a possession above her even though the application specifically says "X" the vast majority think they will be getting "X++". She had people actually walk out of the interview process when they realized they were not going to get X++.

    Oh well I guess that means they do not have to stop watching Judge Judy...

    Mangy Mutt

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  3. @Thor: This is indeed very common. Employers want to fight over resumes, not people, and anyone who's not working looks like a risk. Corporate America is all about APPEARANCES of this or that.

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  4. I contend it has and always will be easier to find a job when you already have one.

    But IMO finding a job is a full time job and if someone wants to move up in job pay or status, they need to spend the effort on getting that job, which is difficult to do when you already have a job.

    On a personal note, I like my job, I like my co-workers and my pay and bennies are decent
    and even though it may seem to be going against the trend I have also decided now is the best time move up in job status.

    Mangy Mutt

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  5. I also think part of difficulty of finding a job when unemployed vs. employed has to do with how we and others view ourselves.

    If you think back to being in high school or your younger days and try and remember how things were when trying to find a date.

    I know for myself, when I was single it was nearly impossible to find someone to pay attention to me, but once I found that a girlfriend, it seemed like more girls were willing to "date" me.

    I think the same thing extents into the job market. If you are without a job, other people think "No one wants you, so we don't want you" But if you already have a job, then obviously someone wants you and is willing to keep you, so must have something going for you. So you become more attractive for that reason only.

    Mangy Mutt

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  6. Manny & Mutt (That sounds like a sitcom btw :-)

    Not at all surprised, I was talking to our two recruiters about this yesterday and the one we have dedicated to IT hiring said that he doesn't like to interview anyone who has been out of work for more than six months because "their skills tend to go stale".

    Being in IT I was a little surprised by that. Technology used to change that quickly, but these days, you'll go years between major upgrades in an operating system or major application like Office or Photoshop. Similar for the developers and programmers. Its a strange bias. Manny, you're in HR right? You're saying it's always been like this more or less? That sucks if so.

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  7. Look at the market - My easy call was a good one! :-)

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  8. From NC -

    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/11/ireland-brinksmanship-with-the-eu-slow-motion-bank-run-may-be-giving-government-leverage.html

    Ireland Brinksmanship with the EU: Slow Motion Bank Run May Be Giving Government Leverage
    In negotiations, understanding where you have leverage relative to your counterpart is key. Ireland appears to be engaged in a quiet staredown with the EU, evidently with the objective of securing a rescue of its banks rather than its government.

    In case you managed to miss it, Ireland is in the midst of a long running budgetary crisis that has reached an acute phase. The implosion of a real estate bubble has left the country with banks up to the gills in bad loans. The government set up a “bad bank” entity, and the commitments per taxpayer, which were over 25,000 euros per taxpayer as of July, just keep rising. Deep budget cuts to meet eurozone fiscal deficit targets have put the economy in freefall, with nominal GDP falling nearly 20% and unemployment at 13%.

    The immediate trigger for panic over Ireland was Merkel’s announcement that bondholders would have to take their lumps in any Eurobailouts. That immediately put Irish and other periphery country bonds under pressure. And although Merkel was beaten a bit back into line (all bondholders will supposedly be protected through 2013), the damage was done. As Richard Smith noted two weeks ago:


    I'm seeing more and more of this kind of reporting as well. That this is as much a struggle between Ireland and the EU as it is a bailout of the banks. Wonder how much truth there is to that. 25,000 Euros per person? And this is before this next round of bailouts?

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  9. @Thor: Still way too much debt in the system globally. It's a massive game of shifting the burden onto the Sheeple collectively.

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  10. We must be sacrificed! I mean "sacrifice for the betterment of our country".

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  11. Manny - I think in the end, we'll all be Greek. What I mean by that is that everyone will eventually be living in societies where much of the economy goes onto the black market to avoid taxes and fees.

    It's already happening in a small way here in CA with cigarette taxes. People will only put up with so much, especially if their wages are not rising along with their taxes.

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  12. Good morning, all. A rally. What a surprise!

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  13. Totally agree, Thor. Bartering, cash, etc. All under the radar of the system.

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  14. @thor:

    Best herds at this time: Still oil services

    XES .09 and rising
    OIH .09 and rising
    XOP: .08 and rising
    XME: .07 and rising (I think it's because of MEE
    UCC: .06 and flat
    KOL: .06 and rising
    IYE: .05 and flat
    XRT: .05 and rising

    I read some articles: wow, look at tech, that's where you want to be! Look at NTAP!!

    XLK is -0.01, and NTAP is -.04. These pundits must be paid by these companies.

    I suspect it's a little like Boiler Room. If you never saw the movie, I think it's a good one, with what we are looking at.

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  15. Whatever happened to that argument between Mish and ECRI about whether or not their leading indicators were suggesting a double dip was imminent?

    Did anyone ever admit they were wrong?

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  16. This video is absolutely hysterical.

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/matt-taibbi/blogs/TaibbiData_May2010/233953/83512

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  17. @Manny,

    Reminds me of the 70's with the terrible inflation, high unemployment, energy shortages, bad stock market, high interest rates, etc. People were doing everything to survive the inflation!

    I remember stocking up on toilet paper and other non-perishables (this is when groceries were a much higher proportion of your income), people were stockpiling everything they could because the price would be much higher next week.

    But we all survived just in time for the new century! Stock market crash, 9/11, more stock market crash, crashing home prices, blah, blah, blah.

    The end result is that we will muddle through.

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  18. I hope so, Denise. I'm just not sure we had the level of corruption and wealth disparities (and such astonishing levels of greed and selfishness) back in those days. For that reason, I worry that we could be in for something more dire than the '70's.

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  19. Manny - I think we're in store for something more dire than the 70's too. It'll be a slow, managed, decline though. I think you'd have to go back to the 1920's to see the level of corruption in society that we have today. If not that, then The Gilded Age.

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  20. @Thor: I just think the social cohesion of the country is starting to break down. Like you mention, I think it's going to be a slow, managed decline, but the end result is going to likely be very unpleasant for most of us.

    ReplyDelete
  21. The debt levels for individuals was much less. I agree, the corruption was much less pervasive than today, but it still was a very depressing and pessimistic time with the Viet Nam war end, Nixon, etc. No one could see where we could recover our post WWII prosperity.

    Now, things are much worse for the average joe, by almost all measures.

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  22. What did you watch yesterday, Rock?

    ReplyDelete
  23. @dss (12:08)

    "Reminds me of the 70's"

    --

    Jerks like Carter, and others, seem to always think things are simply a "Crisis of Confidence" (0:58 seconds in). 'Policy' must be the key, right?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8id5SXASN24

    Most of the time, though, a little, or a lot, of this is all one needs. (7:50 in).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArfkSX7ssM4

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  24. Busy catching up on paper work.

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  25. @DSS, Rock,

    Thanks for your explanation on Citi' wild move I saw yesterday AH.

    As for "Is the correction over". Some people think today is green due to that Government Motor IPO and short term oversold condition.

    Trader Mark - watch S&P 1200.

    I Can

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  26. The Irish capitulation on their bailout will be good for another 200 point bounce. That's coming in the next week or so it seems.

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  27. @Thor: If that's all it takes, TPTB should just do one major IPO and bailout a week. We'd be at DOW 36K in no time.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Bailout of the WeekNovember 18, 2010 at 3:09 PM

    Bahahahaha Mannwich that is a great idea.

    But shhhhh don't say it too loudly, Ben Bernankie might hear you.

    Mangy Mutt

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  29. @I Can,

    Do you have a gmail address?

    ReplyDelete
  30. Waiting for it to go higherNovember 18, 2010 at 3:14 PM

    Thor - The momentem has been upward for the past 3 or so months and even though Dan made a great call and almost too perfectly.

    I agree with you that we still have some upside left to go at least in toward the end of the month.

    I think this weeks downward pressure was the begining of a momentum change it will take awhile to get there.

    I came this ".." close to going long last night, but decided not to. I am too scared to go long now, but when things start to show signs of changing direction again, I may just try to pick up a few more pennies on the short side.

    Mangy mutt

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  31. Mortgage rates going up lately along with the dollar. QE2 has already begun yes? Shouldn't rates be going down?

    Rhetorical question, of course.

    ReplyDelete
  32. @dss,

    I have yours. I'll send you an e-mail. Otherwise tell me what's up

    I Can

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  33. I Can,

    Send me an email. thanks

    ReplyDelete
  34. @dss

    "it still was a very depressing and pessimistic time with the Viet Nam war end, Nixon, etc. No one could see where we could recover our post WWII prosperity."

    ---

    VietNam War

    I'm guessing, rightfully so, that you have a negative pov on the Vietnam War. Furthermore, you despise Presidents who get our country into wars such as these, and admire those who get us out. Would that be correct?

    Since I'm not a grandma, can you please recall for me which US President was around when the US entered Vietnam, and which one was around when we left?

    ReplyDelete
  35. Non-History Buff - You might not be a grandma, but I know little old ladies who have better computer skills then you.

    Try this GOOGLE then President + Vietnam War and presto bango you have an answer.

    But I thank you for the opertunity to educate you on this thing called the "Internet" please defer all further questions to Al Gore - He invented it you know.

    Mangy Mutt

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  36. Justfuckinggoogleit.comNovember 18, 2010 at 5:00 PM

    @Mutt

    thanks for the help. I looked it up.

    from wiki

    "U.S. combat units were deployed beginning in 1965. Operations spanned borders, with Laos and Cambodia heavily bombed. Involvement peaked in 1968 at the time of the Tet Offensive. After this, U.S. ground forces were withdrawn as part of a policy called Vietnamization. Despite the Paris Peace Accords, signed by all parties in January 1973, fighting continued.

    The Case–Church Amendment passed by the U.S. Congress prohibited use of American military after 15 August 1973, unless the president secured congressional approval in advance.[22] The capture of Saigon by the North Vietnamese army in April 1975 marked the end of the Vietnam War."

    Now I'm going to go google who was President in 1965, who was president in 1973, and which president's SOS presided over the Paris Peace Accords.

    This is a fantastic "exercise" (if I may say so).

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  37. Not a Grandma - No need to thank me all thanks should be given to Al Gore for taking the time to make this internet avaible to us.

    Can you imagine what it would have been like to have to look that up in Encyclopidia Birtanica.

    Google is our friend.

    But if you want a REAL fantastic "exercise" you are welcome to correct my spelling and grametical errors.

    Mutt

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  38. Alan Grayson going out in style.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/18/alan-grayson-five-things-_n_785657.html

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  39. @Mutt (5:18)

    It's not my style to criticize spelling errors...

    One might argue that things like grammar or spelling, are significantly less important than portraying an unbiased factual accounting of history.

    Others may argue things like, "why bother with facts when we have opinions that we can request not be challenged"?

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  40. CV - give it a rest already will you? Sheesh.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Thor-

    What you wanted was a blog where people acted politely towards each other.

    Can you reference an instance, on this blog, where comments (of mine) were not polite or specifically insulted anyone?

    Now let's move on to the subject of debate.

    If you will tell me that this blog is NOT OPEN to the subject of debate. That instead, any threads or comments published by the authors must be agreed upon without challenge. If that's what you want, tell me. Make it known.

    Otherwise, I'll come on here, as I do on other blogs (which are public forums), and voice an opinion (and hopefully provide factual references to substantiate my addition to the conversation).

    One that desires only to converse with nodding heads might consider a PRIVATE space (that requires a LOG-IN). It's called a "club" (not a blog).

    The last time I checked, I live in the United States of America. Some think that "freedom of speech", is still a good idea.

    ReplyDelete
  42. But what is an "unbiased factual accounting of history"?

    From the begining of history, history has always been written from the opinion of those who are writting it.

    Which in fact brings up the question of what a fact is.

    A fact is someones take on the circumstances. Many innocent people has been put in jail or killed because of facts that were not in fact a fact.

    Since everyone has their own view on what a fact is/is not thereby giving them their own unique view on history, it would seem that a clear and concise telling of that history becomes important.

    And if the spelling or syntax of that history is not correct it makes the facts of that history less understandable, therefore spelling and grammer become more inportant then how the facts are laid out.

    Golly I hope I spelled everything good.

    Mangy Mutt

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  43. @Thor

    awww man... You deleted my (6:27)...

    Hopefully you won't delete this...

    @Manny

    FWIW... I agree with you on your (5:46), and I saw the comment post at TBP...

    What struck me as hilarious was Grayson saying that the savings could buy "20,000 jars of "their favorite mustard" Grey Poupon... - lol

    Perfect for the Ritzy blog...

    Anyway... I'd actually be in favor of NOT EXTENDING the Bush tax cuts... I don't see the purpose other than kicking the can on what was a misguided premise...

    ...and just when you thought you had CV all figured out...

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  44. CV - with all due respect. Your presence here is neither welcome, nor appreciated. The drive by's are getting tedious and the anon posting is tiresome. We leave you alone - please do us all a favor and do the same.

    Please - pretty please with sugar on top?

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  45. CV - And no, I did not delete your 6:43. I promised this group I would not delete comments and I won't. I leave that up to all the other 7 admins now.

    ReplyDelete
  46. 6:27 I meant, sorry. Long day.

    ReplyDelete
  47. @Mutt

    "history has always been written from the opinion of those who are writting it."

    ---

    That is an oft used cliche that is sometimes tossed out when the facts don't appeal to the person responsible for airing their opinion on a debate topic...

    HISTORY

    I'd argue that when I say that the first committment of combat troops to Vietnam occurred in 1965, and that the Paris Peace Accorda were signed in 1973, that those events DID, IN FACT occur in those timeframes...

    I'd further argue that President Barack Obama was elected the 44th POTUS on November 4th, 2008...

    That Christmas was celebrated last year on December 25th...

    That GM had an IPO which was traded publicly this morning on the NYSE

    ... and, that I made a comment post at (6:27) on this thread...

    ALL of the above are HISTORICAL FACTS... However - I suppose you are right when you say that SOME history is re-written...

    ...some, I suppose, outright vanishes! :-)

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  48. @Thor (6:59)

    You are, then, exonerated... Perhaps it was denise (or one of the other 7 then)... Would you like me to link a copy of the (6:27)?

    ReplyDelete
  49. CV - No, thanks for the offer though. Would you please stop bothering us now?

    ReplyDelete
  50. @Thor (6:56)

    You know? Since you ask nicely like that... I'll try (to stay away)...

    However... I can't see as how anything I've said (as Anon, or whomever) since you started this particular space has been impolite...

    I get challenges to my thought process all day long at my blog... I don't respond to them by asking people to leave...

    ---

    Let me offer a slightly different perspective on this (something you may not have considered)...

    - Ritholtz has a popular blog and is a well known personality...

    - He was even on FAST MONEY this evening, and there was a TV screen caption that declared him as being "one of the 15 most respected financial journalists in the world"

    - You, Manny, dss all post at the Ritholtz blog

    - I don't

    - You, Manny, & Denise all have BLUE HANDLES there (meaning, you're "linking" Ritholtz viewers to this blog here)

    So let's say there was a person that's NEW TO THE GAME... Someone who does not know shit from shinola and was watching FAST MONEY tonight because the stock market has been up the past 2 months, and there was all this buzz about a GM IPO...

    They go to Ritzy's blog (after seeing him on TV, then, by chance, click thru a link to this blog here)...

    IMO - (this is just IMO)... This blog is quite biased, politically... Now probably, a smart person would figure that out in two seconds (by reading the comments), and just waltz away, but at least at Ritholtz there is SOME dissenting opinion voiced...

    You have clearly stated that you don't want dissenting opinions (at least MINE - anyway)...

    Hell - I've never even tried to link my blog from yours... as far as anyone knows, I'm just an anon commentator...

    I'm not telling you how to run your blog, just stating how I feel about fairness & free speech.

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  51. He NEVER deletes a threadNovember 18, 2010 at 7:30 PM

    Thor - At 7:02 Cvienne said "... and, that I made a comment post at (6:27) on this thread..."

    Now why on earth would someone delete his post - We all KNOW he has NEVER EVER EVER deleted and or changed the content of his posts.... Errr well maybe he has just a couple of times, but in all fairness it's his blog so therefore his rules.

    As far as him asking to leave his blog, I honestly don't think he has, yet when he calls them imbeciles,like he did to DL, they kind of choose to leave on their own.

    Anyway those are my facts.

    Mangy Mutt

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  52. Mutt & CV - I think we should all just cool it for awhile. For the sake of sanity right? ;-)

    CV - Please, really, I'm asking you super nicely to just let bygones be bygones and leave us in peace.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Mutt,

    When he hides under "anonymous" handle and tells a "Stupid dog" to leave. Or when tells Ben, he deletes Ritholz's comments.

    A jealous bully, who will stop at nothing until this blog is shut down.

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  54. Anon - In All fairness, I do not believe Cvienne called me a stupid dog. I believe he would have said it to my face, as he did to DL.

    Although there is no way to prove it one way or another, I would loose respect for him if he did. So I take him at his word.

    If he deletes BR's comments, his blog, but if he does then it is kind of silly of him to call anyone out for it.

    As far as shutting down this blog, he does not have the power to do so, the choice lies in the hands of it's creator - US.

    I have stated before and will continue to, as long as people are respectful of others, I personally welcome their comments, whether I agree with them or not.

    But, please do not give someone undo authority or power over which they have none.

    Mangy Mutt

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  55. Dear Anonymous

    If you feel that is nice coming here as we do (to learn from the markets and from each other as a way to improve our skills trying to make a buck out of the market while not losing two) please don't worry.

    We are planning to stay here as long as people come and they share whatever they want.

    Some are more politically inclined, others more market oriented and sometimes we even have mudd wrestling battles too, but is all good.Sometimes is even fun.

    I'm an old fashioned fart so, to me my word is enough, I say we are here and we will stay here (at least myself).

    So please don't worry about shutting down.
    You know boys sometimes...well, have you heard adrenaline rush?.But in a few decades it shall pass, hopefully.

    Don't worry again we'll keep it civil and will be in anybody's best interest.

    Cautionary note: carefull with our Mangy Mutt he got his vaccination but he could be an ankle biter when mad, anyways he's really one of a kind so learn not to judge people...err dogs by their looks.
    But you can if you want judge people by their actions indeed.

    Dan

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  56. CV,

    Thor has asked you nicely to go away. I am going to do the same. Go away. You are not wanted here. Can we state it any more clearly?

    Despite your thoughts to the contrary, we don't have to answer or explain ourselves to you, our blogs went their separate ways many, many months ago yet you continue to think you have a right to demand fealty to you or an obligation to answer your comments or interact with you.

    We don't care if our blog is biased, we do not seek your approval, your input or your insults.

    People on your blog have told you to stop making derogatory comments about us on your own blog. You don't listen to your own people.

    Your creepy obsession with this blog month after month after month is scary and inexplicable.

    No one cares about you, your blog, your opinions or anything about you.

    To summarize, go away and do not come back. We are tired of your nonsense. Even if it was possible for your to comment like a normal person we don't want you here.

    We have asked you on more than one occasion to leave us in peace, yet you continue to come where you are not invited or wanted.

    You know you are not wanted here, why do insist upon coming back to a place that you despise and interact with people you despise as well, given your comments about us on your blog?

    All comments by you will be deleted from now on with no exceptions.

    ReplyDelete
  57. And I have not deleted any comments by anyone (except my own) since this new blog has started.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Defense takes up more than 40% of our budget? Who the hell are we fighting? Alpha Centauri????

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  59. And are the wars still off budget like during the Bush years?

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  60. Also love the headlines for today's market:

    Stocks Surge Worldwide on the Prospect of a Rescue for Ireland

    Really? The market is excited that Ireland is going to be saddled with even more debt?

    ReplyDelete
  61. Denise - I dunno, wouldn't be at all surprised. The Obama administration seems to have kept most of the shitty Bush policies.

    ReplyDelete
  62. dss/thor and others-

    no shit-

    I agree with almost nothing anyone says here-

    but if you want your own space to converse with one another-

    it should be respected

    fucking pisses me off that CV (and his aliases) appears to be haranguing everyone here-

    unacceptable

    ReplyDelete
  63. Thanks, Ahab. It means a lot that you spoke up.

    ReplyDelete
  64. @dss/Thor/Mannwich

    I will respect your wishes (since you've expressed them nicely)... Thor - what you and dss have described as "creepy" goes back to the first day you ever addressed me personally (at the Ritholtz blog)... Knowing NOTHING about me, you literally called me the UNABOMBER (actually - you spelled it wrong because you typed it the "UNI-BOMBER")...

    It's hard, for me, to hold respect for a person, that never makes an effort to retract that... If you had, it would have probably died early, but you, as is your nature, decided not to and things ended up simply escalating...

    Now that you all seem to be asking "nicely" (instead of telling me to "fuck off" like you were last week)... It changes somewhat... I have little doubt that your minds are thinking "fuck off", but I'll accept the gesture at face value...

    May I ask that I leave you to your "club" on one condition? Don't delete this comment... Why? because I have some final things to clear up with some comments that are above...

    #1... As to your reference that you "Don't delete comments"... Well, one of your authors apparently does because my (6:27) vanished... I preserved a copy of it via screen caption... I posted a copy of it here... (an old thread from the beginning of my blog)...

    http://traders-anonymous.blogspot.com/2010/01/whats-on-cvs-dome-this-week.html#comments

    Also... somebody mentioned DL... For reference, the VERY NEXT day that I lashed out to DL on my blog, I offered an apology (many words - in fact)... Here is a link to that...

    http://traders-anonymous.blogspot.com/2010/11/morning-audibles_10.html?showComment=1289392221041#c6422794540434827044

    See?... I admit when I go overboard with things... Perhaps if I'd have been extended the same courtesy (back at the Ritholtz blog in June of '09), NONE of what we're discussing right now would be necessary...

    Mutt - I read a "stupid dog" comment above... Rest assured it was not from me... I don't recall making any comments regarding spelling or grammar until right now (using the "uni-bomber") referral... I think I've always treated you fairly and engaged you in debate... Never acting condescending... In fact, it's been EASY, and a pleasure to treat you nicely because you've never treated me in a condescending way (as others have)...

    So... I'd be happy to leave you all in peace and to do what denise suggests in her (8:30) by saying...

    "We don't care if our blog is biased"...

    Now that I know that, it's easier for me to stay away... Because I'd prefer not to discuss markets & politics with gangs who are loathe to hear dissenting opinions...

    Do me the courtesy of NOT deleting this comment, which I'm publishing at (10:51), like you did the (6:27)... & I'll stay away...

    CV

    ReplyDelete
  65. @dss/Thor/Mannwich

    I will respect your wishes (since you've expressed them nicely)... Thor - what you and dss have described as "creepy" goes back to the first day you ever addressed me personally (at the Ritholtz blog)... Knowing NOTHING about me, you literally called me the UNABOMBER (actually - you spelled it wrong because you typed it the "UNI-BOMBER")...

    It's hard, for me, to hold respect for a person, that never makes an effort to retract that... If you had, it would have probably died early, but you, as is your nature, decided not to and things ended up simply escalating...

    Now that you all seem to be asking "nicely" (instead of telling me to "fuck off" like you were last week)... It changes somewhat... I have little doubt that your minds are thinking "fuck off", but I'll accept the gesture at face value...

    May I ask that I leave you to your "club" on one condition? Don't delete this comment... Why? because I have some final things to clear up with some comments that are above...

    #1... As to your reference that you "Don't delete comments"... Well, one of your authors apparently does because my (6:27) vanished... I preserved a copy of it via screen caption... I posted a copy of it here... (an old thread from the beginning of my blog)...

    http://traders-anonymous.blogspot.com/2010/01/whats-on-cvs-dome-this-week.html#comments

    Also... somebody mentioned DL... For reference, the VERY NEXT day that I lashed out to DL on my blog, I offered an apology (many words - in fact)... Here is a link to that...

    http://traders-anonymous.blogspot.com/2010/11/morning-audibles_10.html?showComment=1289392221041#c6422794540434827044

    See?... I admit when I go overboard with things... Perhaps if I'd have been extended the same courtesy (back at the Ritholtz blog in June of '09), NONE of what we're discussing right now would be necessary...

    Mutt - I read a "stupid dog" comment above... Rest assured it was not from me... I don't recall making any comments regarding spelling or grammar until right now (using the "uni-bomber") referral... I think I've always treated you fairly and engaged you in debate... Never acting condescending... In fact, it's been EASY, and a pleasure to treat you nicely because you've never treated me in a condescending way (as others have)...

    So... I'd be happy to leave you all in peace and to do what denise suggests in her (8:30) by saying...

    "We don't care if our blog is biased"...

    Now that I know that, it's easier for me to stay away... Because I'd prefer not to discuss markets & politics with gangs who are loathe to hear dissenting opinions...

    Do me the courtesy of NOT deleting this comment, which I'm publishing at (10:51), like you did the (6:27)... & I'll stay away...

    CV

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  66. All about the respectNovember 18, 2010 at 11:47 PM

    Ahab, I often times do not agree with things Thor, Denise, Rock, or Manny say.

    But they say it in a respectful way and they are open to civil arguments about their points of view.

    I have always believed that we learn the most when we try and understand another's point of view.

    So it is cool that you do not agree with what is said here but even cooler that you are willing to state it.

    I am NOT in favor of censoring anything that is not rude or condescending, if someone has something to say, I will hear them out. But if they choose to be then let the chips fall where they may.

    To me it is all about respect, if you invite me into your home, your car (But don't take me parking, unless there are free beers) or your life, I should respect that.

    I have said many times before and I stand by it, that Cvienne is a smart man and although I do not agree with everything he has to say he has many insights that are at least worth considering.

    But karma is a virgin and I do believe he is coming into someone else house (Blog) and being disrespectful of how they (we) choose to keep their house.

    I always figure Cvienne would understand that you do not go pissing in someone elses coffee, cuz people just wont put up with that.

    Ahab, your sentiment is much appreciated.

    Mangy Mutt

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  67. Thor - after today's GM rally it is not surprising that they are down a bit. I still think the market has a little more upward momentum to give, maybe a couple weeks.

    All I know is I do not want to go long at this point.

    Mutt

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  68. Mutt - Very well said my friend! :-)

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  69. @Mutt:

    You disagree with me? grrrrrrrrr.....(showing teeth).....

    On a pullback like we had day before yesterday (maybe it was yesterday, anyway 2 nights ago), it was time to go long. The structural reasoning is parodied on all those cartoons: The Bernank said stocks would go up.

    When you start a position, start it small, so if it goes the wrong way, you don't lose much. I know people that start with 25 shares. (except some ETFs require 100 shares,) Then when you start getting your higher highs and higher lows, add. When you start to hit a point of resistance, start removing shares. It can break through resistance, in which case you just start adding again on the higher lows.

    Set stops. Setting stops is an art as well as a science. My trading tool can show "bar point range". You can take a look at the volatility, look at where support points seem to be placed by volume and perhaps other things, so that if it dips below your threshold of pain, you get out.

    Learn about snappers. I've made a lot of money on snappers. That's like the BKE I posted the other day. That snapper was started with 400 shares. Check it out on a 1 minute chart. I made about $1000 on that one, because I'm following BKE, I'm familiar with what it's doing and I could see that snapper was doomed from the start. I did not make money on the way up, I set market sell-short stop orders to catch it on the way down (If I was wrong, it would stay up and I would lose nothing). As it came down, I simply started selling after it returned to its 15 minute bar point range, but I kept a little short on until it turned back. Then I was out.

    You can play the market, depending on your risk appetite, but the Bernank is right, we're devaluing the dollar and the market will rise. So look for a pullback, and test the waters with small trades. As it goes your way, add.

    FYI, here are the best performers in the Oil & Gas, and Coals:

    MEE .21
    NOV .19
    MDR .16
    SLB .14
    DRQ .13
    NBR .13
    SPN .13
    CCJ .13

    Also, there's XTXI at .15, but I'm nervous about that one because anybody with 50 million could move that wherever they want.

    The other market manipulation I've seen is where a LVT will enter a position with huge buy, the stock pops, then he exits in dribs and drabs taking several days, and you can see the price drop slowly. He's leaving holding Grammy's money. Not mine, though. I short those. (I don't short buyouts, of course).

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  70. Except I was really tempted to short the POT buyout because it wasn't a buyout, only a rumor. But I got external counsel, and didn't.

    Moral: when you're tempted to violate your set of trading rules, go take a cold shower.

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  71. Rock - Thank you very much for that insight.

    I need to start archiving this, in fact that is a great idea.

    Mutt

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  72. @mutt

    But wet fur always stinks....

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  73. Comments by CV were found in the spam filter and released. No comments were deleted.

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