Pages

Thursday, April 28, 2011

Is China investing way too much in its infrastructure?

Picking up on the China theme from yesterday, I thought I would share this story with the group. I thought it was very informative as I have not seen this reported on in the MSM too much yet, but have often wondered how long China was going to build new things as a way to prop up their economy.

Is China investing way too much in its infrastructure?

China's economy is overheating now, but, over time, its current overinvestment will prove deflationary both domestically and globally. Once increasing fixed investment becomes impossible—most likely after 2013—China is poised for a sharp slowdown. Instead of focusing on securing a soft landing today, Chinese policymakers should be worrying about the brick wall that economic growth may hit in the second half of the quinquennium.

China has grown for the last few decades on the back of export-led industrialization and a weak currency, which have resulted in high corporate and household savings rates and reliance on net exports and fixed investment (infrastructure, real estate, and industrial capacity for import-competing and export sectors). When net exports collapsed in 2008-09 from 11 percent of GDP to 5 percent, China's leader reacted by further increasing the fixed-investment share of GDP from 42 percent to 47 percent.

The problem, of course, is that no country can be productive enough to reinvest 50 percent of GDP in new capital stock without eventually facing immense overcapacity and a staggering nonperforming loan problem. China is rife with overinvestment in physical capital, infrastructure, and property. To a visitor, this is evident in sleek but empty airports and bullet trains (which will reduce the need for the 45 planned airports), highways to nowhere, thousands of colossal new central and provincial government buildings, ghost towns, and brand-new aluminum smelters kept closed to prevent global prices from plunging.

63 comments:

  1. @Thor:

    I think the IMF has a pretty good set of information and some answers at

    http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2010/06/yueh.htm

    Basically, China has to build things as a way to create jobs until the Chinese government convinces the people and both private and state-owned corporations to become a consumption-based economy rather than a savings and export based economy.

    Like the situation in the US, the changes necessary will give great pain to the rich.

    "China’s continued growth will depend on the success of the massive fiscal stimulus, focused largely on infrastructure. But the social part of the stimulus, representing less than 5 percent of the package, was judged insufficient to stimulate private consumption".

    The IMF says they might try increased taxes on savings and retained earnings.

    Isn't it so wierd that they are on the opposite side of the globe, and their problems are so opposite to the US?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Rock - yes,I've often thought that!

    ReplyDelete
  3. @Rock,

    Your(12:48AM) from yesterday's thread.

    "Getting a foothold in foreign counry's financial system such that the power and control can be transferred..".

    In India, at least, that's not going to happen! Foreigners can only buy a small portion - not even minority - like 10% stakes in industries considered important.

    Whether foreign govt. officials can be bought - forsure. Two of them caught in India taking hugh bribes. BILLIIONS! One Commonwealth games head - taking billions in bribes from a Swiss company and another a young woman(whose father is Premier of a Southern State) - She is involved in 2G scam. Oh the Swiss are so nice. Hide looter's money(tax haven) and don't hesitate to bribe corrupt officials in other countries. IBM, too was caught several months ago.


    ICan

    ReplyDelete
  4. U$D - GDF!

    DXY going to break 73?


    ICan

    ReplyDelete
  5. @Rock,

    futher to your 12:48.

    My father has an opposite opinion. He thinks all that foreign funds following into Ems - most of that money will never will be repatriated. Know PIIGS!


    ICan

    ReplyDelete
  6. Good one, Thor. China over-investing in infrastructure, while we in the U.S. vastly under-invest in it. Good times.

    ReplyDelete
  7. @Rock: Without the requisite social safety nets and decent salaries for enough of the people of China to form a strong middle class that will spend and consume more, I don't see that happening any time soon. Do you?

    ReplyDelete
  8. @ICan:

    Your 10:18, wow! Billions! Man!

    A few months ago, there was this Austrailian caught for bribing somebody in China. The trial went behind closed doors, the Aussies were pissed, and the 2 guys were found guilty and put in a Chinese jail.

    A Chinese jail is not a little piece of heaven.

    But I think the way the bribes go will be: "I'll invest 11 billion in your company if you'll take some suggestions from me. When you stop taking my suggestions, I'll move my 11 billion to your competitor." A direct bribe is unnecessary. It's just an investment.

    Which is why China is trying to stop hot money from coming in.

    RE your 10:24. I never anticipated any money would be repatriated, but without a doubt, investments that are not successful will be moved. And I showed you how it can be easily moved inside a company, legally. So if I've invested some of my profits in India, and they are not performing, I'll simply sell the investment, buy 25$ chip resistors from my subsidary in Indonesia, and move the money there.

    Legal. Tax-free.

    ReplyDelete
  9. GDP at 1.8% - WTE, is that bullish too? More QE or quasi-QE?

    ReplyDelete
  10. Of course it's Bullish! Rally-ho!

    ReplyDelete
  11. With Bennny and his magic Put, everything is bullish, it seems.

    ReplyDelete
  12. XOM reported the biggest profit in 8 years. (hey, Thor, did we call that or what?)

    Their stock is down 1/2%.

    X reported the 9th straight quarter loss, and they're up 3/4%.

    go figure.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Wal Mart customers "running out of money?" Bombast? Agenda? Some truth there?

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/wal-mart-ceo-shoppers-are-running-out-money-there-no-sign-recovery

    ReplyDelete
  14. Rock - we sure did. All of that makes sense in the land of upside down, where people wear hats on their feet and hamburgers eat people, and companies reporting losses go up and companies reporting profits go down.

    There's a quarter in it for anyone who can catch that reference ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  15. Cramer wants his minions to buy Gold.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Cramer, Mish, and Beck - all are gold bugs aren't they?

    ReplyDelete
  17. Have we breached my top yet, folks?

    ReplyDelete
  18. Schiff. ZH. The more people who pile in makes me think more and more this is a bubble that will burst as well.

    ReplyDelete
  19. It looks we have indeed breached my top but haven't blown through it, by any means.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Rising gas prices appear to have taken a break here lately - lowest price on my way in to work this morning was 4.22

    ReplyDelete
  21. @Jeff,

    Re PM bubble.

    Every evening when I read Indian newspapers - the biz sections, one story is how PMs are up. Something, like,"Silver up Rs.xxxx, blah blah". I immediately think this is going up tomorrow. Indians/Chinese/Arabs -people of Asia love Pms. With silver lower middle class people can pile in too. How long this is go on? I don't know. We talked about this in December 2010.

    ICan

    ReplyDelete
  22. Good piece from PC this morning

    MACRO THOUGHTS FROM A RAIL INDUSTRY INSIDER

    Oscar Munoz: We continue to see positive economic trends in an expanding economy, supporting profitable growth across all major markets that we serve. Looking ahead, both discussions with our customers and review of key leading indicators suggest healthy economic growth will continue throughout 2011 and beyond.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Tug-o-war betweem risk-on, risk-off.

    UBS thinks silver will come down to U$D34 within next 12 months.

    www.financialpost.com


    ICan

    ReplyDelete
  24. This is fantastic.

    "Why would I watch the wedding? I couldn't take any of that seriously," he said in an interview with BBC Radio 4. "I don't think the so-called Royal family speak for England now, and I don't think England needs them.
    "I do seriously believe that they are benefit scroungers, nothing else," he continued. "I don't believe they serve any purpose whatsoever. I'm not an anarchist, but I believe that people don't want the Royal family -- the so-called Royal family. They're not royal to me, but they're royal to the media for some reason."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/28/morrissey-blasts-royal-wedding-family_n_854837.html

    ReplyDelete
  25. The tick up in jobless claims is interesting, no?

    ReplyDelete
  26. @Jeff(1:06)

    Great tourist attraction and good for business - GDP uppers.

    I read somewhere that the Queen asked for higher allowanc(?) to heat her palace? Due to higher heating costs in winter.

    I don't care what England does with their royals, but if they are freeloader, atleast behave properly. Andrew is the worst of all. His former wife, Sarah was asking for bribes - to provide an "access" to him. He is some sort of British goodwill ambASSador.

    Macro Man has a good post on football and royal wedding.


    ICan

    ReplyDelete
  27. @I Can: I hear you but surely the UK and London can do more to attract tourists than promote this fake, pretend rubbish? Or maybe, in these days of extend and PRETEND, this IS the best they, and we, all can do? If so, quite sad if you ask me.

    ReplyDelete
  28. @Jeff,

    What I don't understand: Why unemployeed people want to move to Canada? Weather?


    "Alberta employment minister warns of 'Perfect Storm".

    "The Province will have 77000 more jobs than people because boomers will retire out of workforce".

    Even in India, in my ancestral state, mostly agriculture, harder to find labor to help with wheat harvest. More and more agri. is machinised. Labor is becoming very expensive.


    ICan

    ReplyDelete
  29. ^Don't want to move to Canada.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Link to above story:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2011/04/28/calgary-retirement-alberta-workforce.html

    ReplyDelete
  31. Weather probably a factor, I Can, but what about work eligibility/Visa requirements? I think many Americans would move to Canada in a heartbeat if it were easy to get a work visa.

    ReplyDelete
  32. So many people predicting nasty inflation makes me think something else is going to happen.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Manny - same here. My position is that prices will rise, and then fall back down once the economy slows.

    ReplyDelete
  34. @Jeff,

    I don't think visa is a prob. for U.S. citizens. Skilled workers will have no problem. Actually Canada and Australia are two most aggressive "recruiters in India.

    Alberta and each province has unique immigration policies. Alberta has several different categories of immigrants:

    Skillied,
    Unskilled,
    family,
    business,
    Money(show some $ and get accepted). Lot of rich Chinese and Indian or Arabs come under this cat.

    ICan

    ReplyDelete
  35. Something funny going on at the Globe and Mail today. The most leftist party in Cad. election is fast catching up with the Cons. and the Globe endoresed Cons. today. Elections on May 2nd. even the Loonie took a slight hit on NDP surge.

    Over 2700 comments to that Globe editoria. Mostly negative. Some of the comments got thumbs up in hundreds!.

    So the Globe took notice and now they are doing mid-day open thread/session to explain their choice. Commenters arn't buying it.

    Orange revolution in Canada? We'll see on May 2. I going to vote Center.

    ICan

    ReplyDelete
  36. A little late to the party today.

    I just received my return receipt card from the Illinois Department of Revenue, addressed to Springfield, Illinois and guess who took delivery according to their stamp?

    J.P. Morgan. Do they have their fingers in that pie, too?

    ReplyDelete
  37. ICan,

    Everyone is tired of the con that the Con's keep delivering.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Thor and Rock,

    Nothing nefarious or bizarro world about a stock going up on bad earnings. It usually means people are covering their shorts on the bad news.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Thor,

    My biggest take from that rail article is that as long as the dollar remains week, our coal (and anything else that we actually still produce) is going to be even more attractive to the world.

    It is the world demand that is driving some of our economy these days, taking the place of smaller domestic demand.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Manny,

    What better diversion and tourist getter than a once in thirty year wedding. Don't forget the austerity programs in England that are cutting huge numbers of public employees.

    I am not planning on watching the wedding because the important scenes will be played over and over and over whether I want to see them or not. Plus I am sure that Jon Stewart will have all the coverage that I need.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Thor,

    Last night's Daily Show was a real keeper. Too funny. Bernie was never better.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Consolidating of gains continues.

    ReplyDelete
  43. @ICan:

    What do you think about shorting REDF now? Looks like the chart's about to flip us the bird.

    ReplyDelete
  44. @Rock(3:06)

    Don't know anything about that Indian internt co.


    ICan

    ReplyDelete
  45. Denise - yes I loved it!

    Aha! Re your exports comment. Do you know if that's what's driving our exports lately? Commodities rather than manufactured goods?

    ReplyDelete
  46. AAII bullish sentiment at 37.90

    www.bespokeinvest.com

    Institutions aren't aggresively accumulating - Cobra,


    ICan

    ReplyDelete
  47. I don't know anything except what the CSX CEO was talking about. I imagine that the stats are somewhere but I don't know. Let me see if I can quickly find anything.

    ReplyDelete
  48. According to this our biggest exports by in millions of dollars are:

    Petroleum Products - Other 4020
    Semiconductors 3929
    Industrial Machines 3664
    Pharma 3419

    Coal 397
    Copper 709
    Foods (all combined) 10548

    ReplyDelete
  49. Denise - ah, so a combination of the two. Thank you!

    ReplyDelete
  50. @Jeff,

    Congrats on Silver. I'll be reading about it tonight in Indian newspapers. Latest bubble. I wonder where/what's the next bubble?.


    ICan

    ReplyDelete
  51. @Denise,

    WOW Food #s. Atleast someone loves BB!


    ICan

    ReplyDelete
  52. Thanks I Can. Rock has it as well, I believe. Have also been in GLD for a while now. Just a small holding though.

    ReplyDelete
  53. @Rock,

    I am looking a SU. Finviz.com. Triangle. Which way it'll go?


    ICan

    ReplyDelete
  54. RIMM, a cautionary tale for other tech companies, and, yes, that includes Apple:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/rimm-halts-stock-cuts-guidance-cites-shortfall-blackberry-sales-hockeysticks-q3q4-estimates

    ReplyDelete
  55. And let's have a moment of respect for those who lost their lives in the storms last night. So tragic.

    Sheesh. Puts things into perspective.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Amen Denise. Pretty shocking stuff.

    ReplyDelete
  57. @Manny, another cautionary tale :>)

    http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/04/28/jobs-net-is-bigger-than-ballmers/

    ReplyDelete
  58. greg,

    Interestingly, it was the collapse in MSFT's net income rather than any increase to AAPL's quarterly. yoy, AAPL's net income doubled. Pretty impressive.

    ReplyDelete
  59. @dss, and yet the stock trades like a railroad.

    ReplyDelete
  60. Just a tiny bit better than CSX, but Jeez Louise!

    From the bottom in 09

    CSX up 273%
    AAPL up 317%

    ReplyDelete