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Monday, January 3, 2011

Manny Mondays: Intra-class Sheeple Warfare Edition

Happy New Year and Monday morning everyone! As we enter the '11 new year, one of the many looming crises that could have truly dire ramifications on keeping the social fabric of this nation from coming apart is starting to get more attention in the MSM. It's the coming state and local government budget crisis that is likely to come to a head in the coming years, and one that has potentially several significant social repercussions.

As usual, the narrative in the MSM is mostly written from the elites' perspective, which is not an accident, as the intent is clearly to keep the Sheeple fighting amongst ourselves for the remaining table scraps after a small group of people take increasingly more and more for themselves, while claiming there's "no money" for everyone else. The austerity middle finger for the Sheeple, 6th & 7th homes, a 3rd yacht, caviar and an endless supply of useless Tiffany jewelry for our "betters".

I get the sense that this topic is going to be increasingly "in the zeitgeist" in 2011 and one that will only gain momentum over time at least partially because it conveniently takes the focus off of the real culprits in terms of what ails this nation, namely those in power on Wall Street, in the corporate suite, and in Washington. This week's Sunday NY Times has a front page article on this very topic.

Here are a few highlights from the article:

Across the nation, a rising irritation with public employee unions is palpable, as a wounded economy has blown gaping holes in state, city and town budgets, and revealed that some public pension funds dangle perilously close to bankruptcy. In California, New York, Michigan and New Jersey, states where public unions wield much power and the culture historically tends to be pro-labor, even longtime liberal political leaders have demanded concessions — wage freezes, benefit cuts and tougher work rules.

What's interesting (and not that surprising) is that, according to the article, conversation and focus has seemingly turned away from Wall Street and is now squarely on the public unions and their employees:

These battles play out in many corners, but few are more passionate than in New Jersey, where politics tend toward the moderately liberal and nearly 20 percent of the work force is unionized (compared with less than 14 percent nationally). From tony horse-country towns to middle-class suburbs to hard-edged cities, property tax and unemployment rates are high, and budgets are pools of red ink.

A new regime in state politics is venting frustration less at Goldman Sachs executives (Governor Christie vetoed a proposed “millionaire’s tax” this year) than at unions. Newark recently laid off police officers after they refused to accept cuts, and Camden has threatened to lay off half of its officers in January.


And shock of shocks, contrary to our friend Lou Mish and other intra-class warfare types who claim that public union "free-loader" employees are somehow getting rich off of their pay packages, it seems that studies show this is simply not the case, for the most part:

A raft of recent studies found that public salaries, even with benefits included, are equivalent to or lag slightly behind those of private sector workers. The Manhattan Institute, which is not terribly sympathetic to unions, studied New Jersey and concluded that teachers earned wages roughly comparable to people in the private sector with a similar education.

Go read the whole must-read article here:

Public Workers Facing Outrage as Budget Crises Grow

Meanwhile, for an, ahem, alternative viewpoint over in la-la-libertarian land, Lou Mish wants all fire departments and possibly police departments to be all volunteer. I honestly don't think this post is even worthy of a response as the absurdity of it speaks for itself and shows just how truly unhinged some of these libertarian types have become from reality but I had to post it. Shit, if it were this easy, maybe all lowly service blue collar workers should just work for free, especially those that aren't Mish's rich client base who clearly "deserve" everything they've "earned" in their careers and lives? That should work out just swell for our communities and the country as whole, right?

In Praise of Volunteer Fire Departments (Do we really need paid union fire departments anywhere? What about police?)

Eventually the Sheeple are going to tire of battling each other for the meager table scraps left over for us by our betters to battle over because eventually they'll be nothing left. The elites will have it all and subsequently have the world that they longed for all along (or so they thought). Once that happens, to whom do the Sheeple turn their/our ire? And what will be the social ramifications of it all? I'll leave you with this quote from the article to ponder it all:

A white-haired retired undercover police officer, whose wrap-around shades match his black Harley-Davidson jacket, pauses outside the Washington Township municipal building to consider the many targets. He did not want to give his name.

“Christie has all the good intentions in the world but has he hit the right people?” he says. “I understand pulling in belts, but you talking about janitors and cops, or the free-loading freeholder?”

72 comments:

  1. Great article, Mannwich.

    I lived in a New England town for 11 years participating in schools, athletic activities, bell-ringing ceremonies, and bought a plow and plowed my hill every winter, every storm, before I was invited to join the volunteer fire department.

    We had a motto: We had yet to lose a foundation.

    But one fire I arrived at, another volunteer had already arrived and suffered 2nd and 3rd degree burns, and burned his lungs, saving a 5 year old girl. She lost her mom in the fire (chimney fire), and her dad was traveling.

    I've already commented about my son's "speech impediment" requiring extra cost speech therapy at school.

    So sure, at the grassroots level, we spend more than we should. I just don't like to see these articles re-aim the cannon away from the huge huge expenses caused by Wall Street and Banksters towards an institution that has had its overages and problems for years and years, but whose overages have not grown significantly, as the Banksters overages have grown.

    I think it's time we called a spade a spade.

    I mean, Brett was fined 500K for non-cooperation. see
    http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/429842-vikings-quarterback-brett-favre-fined-for-not-cooperating-on-sexting-case/
    but did we see comparable fines to GS by the SEC for non-cooperation?

    Where is the spade in this environment?

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  2. Cdn market is closed today.

    Cautious optimisim. First tradind Monday of the year.


    ICan

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  3. Spelling errors.

    My "Angrezi" is not good.


    ICan

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  4. Exactly my point, Rock. Their strategy is an oldie but a "goodie" (baddie?). Bottom line is that sadly it works. For a while. But what happens once policeman, fireman, and other badly needed public workers finally "get it" and turn on the very elites they're hired to often serve? Do they stop protecting the elites' interests and even turn on them entirely? Do the elites just hire private police, fireman and other services while the everything else in the commons erodes? Isn't that what third worlds and banana republics do? I think this is why the elites never want to mess with the military because they need those guys to protect THEIR interests. Pretty smart. It's a slow motion train wreck still in progress.

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  5. Oh, woe to be a bear and short. Rally on, Garth. Same as it ever was. LOL.

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  6. Gas price at my local stations was $2.99 on Saturday afternoon. By the time I came home at 10ish, it had jumped to $3.05. Are we heading to $4+ again?

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  7. @Jeff, gas prices in Canada - Ontario - $1.10/liter and over some places eventhough CAD is above par.

    ICan

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  8. I'm just glad that I don't drive much and my wife's commute to her job is 7 minutes or so. I literally fill up my tank once every 2-3 months. Just use it locally around town.

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  9. I'm really hoping the Wikileaks stuff on BAC doesn't disappoint. I wonder if the world will just yawn at this point at it?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/03/bank-of-america-wikileaks_1_n_803503.html

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  10. @Denise: From the prior thread:

    Fair enough, Denise. I don't necessarily disagree with any of that.

    Perhaps my comments should have been more centered around the fact of true sacrifice being required of all groups to try to address some of the problems that our nation faces, and especially the ones that can afford it to he most (the truly wealthy across all demographics). But we know that likely will not happen.

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  11. U.S. Banks on a roll today. BAC, C. Anticipation of BTE? or dud?

    OR just one trade - U$D vs. all other assets.


    ICan

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  12. Just Say No to Class Warfare RhetoricJanuary 3, 2011 at 1:36 PM

    Please define for me "elite.". What amount of assets does one have before he is considered "elite.". What kind of income level would get me in the "elite" category. What if I own a small business that makes 1mm a year. What if I built that business from the ground up over the last 30 years? Does that make me part of the "elite?". Or, as long as I don't shop at Tiffanys will I be ok?

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  13. @Just Say No to Class Warfare

    Why don't you define what elite is for us?

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  14. Here's proof that even a pro-business, lean spending, anti-union state is failing:

    2011 State of Texas Shortfall

    There's One Huge State Budget Crisis That Everyone Is Refusing To Talk About

    So why haven't we heard more about Texas, one of the most important economy's in America? Well, it's because it doesn't fit the script. It's a pro-business, lean-spending, no-union state. You can't fit it into a nice storyline, so it's ignored.

    But if you want to make comparisons between US states and ailing European countries, think of Texas as being like America's Ireland. Ireland was once praised as a model for economic growth: conservatives loved it for its pro-business, anti-tax, low-spending strategy, and hailed it as the way forward for all of Europe. Then it blew up.

    This is the sleeper state budget crisis of 2011, and it will be praised for doing great, right up until the moment before it blows up.

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  15. Great post Manny, lots of food for thought.

    The Mish suggestion of volunteer fire departments so cheap ass morons like himself don't have to pay is one of the more stupid pronouncements that he has ever made.

    It's always about the money with these idiots. No thought about the outcomes.

    Lou Mish offers up a link to the wiki that explains what a volunteer fire department does as proof for his claims, not to mention a few hand selected letters from his legions of lemmings instead of cold hard facts.

    Sure, many small communities (which make up a very small percentage of the US population) have volunteer fire departments because they cannot afford and/or are too small to fund a real department, but try that in the thirty largest cities by population and see how that works.

    Again, simplistic, totally unrealistic dogma offered up as the "truth".

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  16. @Dss

    You're right about volunteer fire departments. As I said, we never lost a foundation.

    In colonial times, we had volunteers providing services to the people, from fire, to police, even to politicians. Times changed. Now, we need professionals who know how to protect themselves from volatile chemicals and toxic smoke, protect themselves from AK47's and international invaders, and protect themselves from patriots with portable gallows and hangman's nooses. Respectively.

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  17. @Just Say No: I'm glad to engage you in a debate if you're willing to put some actual thought into your arguments instead of throwing out straw men-like diversions. Feel free to at least try to do that and I'm happy to oblige.

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  18. @dss-

    Mish on "do we need to pay fire-fighters, or police?".

    Do we need to pay anyone? Might as well get slaves to do everthings.

    Only stock pushers or paper pushers need to be paid.

    ICan

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  19. I'll believe that politicians and the "elites" are serious about cutting gov't spending when they also cut military spending on useless, often very harmful wars, and pull the troops out of bases all over the world in our imperial adventures. If they refuse to do this, it seems to me that it are those monied interests that should largely pay for these adventures since it are their interests (and money/power) that are largely being protected the most.

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  20. Exactly, I Can. Again, I'm sure Mish and his well-heeled clients all "deserve" every cent they've "earned" over the years though. I'm sure they didn't do anything dubious along the way to accumulate their wealth. Snark off.

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  21. And volunteer fire departments is one thing, but volunteer police too? Yeah, I'm SURE that would work out REAL well. Stupid shit like tha just undermines his overall credibility.

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  22. @Rock,

    There is no limit to idiotic simplistic solutions in the libertarian world, you have to wonder about the depth of their intellect when they make crazy ass pronouncements. As long as it lowers taxes, it's ok by them. Their queer world view works well with a 100 person hamlet but just doesn't work in the complicated real world.

    Just like the Republicans in Congress who had to be shamed into voting for the 9/11 Responder's bill, (those very same responders whom they exploited politically at every opportunity) the people like Mish trot out these utopic single celled scenarios where everything in the world can be cured by cutting taxes.

    Three days into the New Year and Lou Mish already has my vote for Maroon of the Year.

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  23. I think it was David Stockman who said something like(I don't remember the exact quote) - our economy is comprised of algos and daytraders who buy/sell stocks to each other, there is no added value...

    ICan

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  24. I think we all have to remember that a guy like Mish is talking his book; he is the point man who makes money with his extremist views by driving people who are like minded to the investment company he represents, Sitka Capital.

    So he is just like any other huckster trying to make a buck. He does so by attracting people drawn to his extremist views. Capitalism at it's finest.

    The more extremist and outrageous the pronouncements the better he does, I would guess.

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  25. Just Say No to Class Warfare RhetoricJanuary 3, 2011 at 3:11 PM

    @dss.

    I cannot define "elite" which is one of the reasons I wouldn't toss the term around as freely as mannwich.

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  26. Volunteer Fire DeptJanuary 3, 2011 at 3:19 PM

    Dss – Having spent almost 10 years as an EMT on a volunteer fire dept, I feel I am somewhat qualified to respond.

    The dept I was on was for both city and county, the city had a pollution of roughly 3500 the county population was much lager but spread out over a vast area.

    We had a response time that rivaled some of the bigger paid depts, we had excellent trained and newish equipment and although some of the volunteers were the biggest assholes you would ever meet, when it came down to doing the job, there was none better.

    The system worked and worked well – But there is a reason for that. First, because that is the way it always was so no one knew any different., second everyone on the dept had a sense of pride of for what they were doing and there was a lot of community support.

    I do not believe this type of system would work well in large cities, they would need to be a mix of both volunteer and paid. You can force a paid person to attend required training, you can not make a volunteer give up a weekend hunting trip.

    There are also other things that need to be considered, part of what the insurance rating agency rates home owners insurance off of is the type of equipment the dept has. The town I volunteered on had no 3 story building and only a few 2 story houses, yet home owners insurance was based (up) on the fact we had no ladder truck.

    So in some cases people would have to pay more for insurance which would offset any taxes. Response time goes up, so does the insurance for the entire town, training hours not met, number of volunteers not adequate, up, up, up goes the insurance cost

    I am ALL for a volunteer dept where it works, but the larger the city the less likely it will work.

    Mangy Mutt

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  27. Thanks for weighin in, Mutt. That's been my observation when I lived (and grew up) in a small town. It can and does often work well there, although I would NOT want volunteer policemen in those or any places. Some of the paid cops were big enough yahoos there that often got off on their little slice of power and abused it in a big way. Big cities are an entirely different animal altogether.

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  28. Volunteer fire dept, that is. Can work well and make sense in small towns.....

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  29. Thank God the Volunteer Blog Police are hereJanuary 3, 2011 at 3:24 PM

    Anon (3:11) - Thank you for stopping by and gracing us with your astute and wonderful insite of when and how to "toss" around terms like "elite"

    Maybe without tossing the term around too much I can make my own definition.

    Elite - Someone who thinks they know better then others.

    or perhaps

    Elite - Someone who tries to oppose their will on other.

    But since you clearly know better then Mannwich or any of us, it is our privilage to gain the pearls of wisdom you just shared.

    Mangy Mutt

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  30. @Just Say No: I think the class warfare will stop when the elites stop waging war on the rest of us. And, no, I wouldn't consider someone in a small business making $1MM~ to be in the "elites". What I mean by that are those who clearly have the power to influence and set the bigger picture policy agenda for the country. Those people have waged war on the rest of us with their self-serving policies and are largely responsible for the predicament we are in. It's clearly the result of a failure leadership by the "elites". That's what I mean by it.

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  31. @Just Say No,

    Then why ask someone else to define something you cannot define yourself? You don't seem to be ignorant or uneducated.

    Elitism isn't defined by an income level, how much a business makes or how long it has been in business, much less by where people shop.

    But you already know that even though you are pretending to play dumb so you can toss out a gratuitous insult.

    I think it is like pornography, I know it when I see it.

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  32. But I do think that someone making ~$1MM can and should pay more in taxes and sacrifice and pay their fair share like the rest of us will be forced to do help fix the problems that ail this country. Go where the money is.....everyone should sacrfice. Is that a quaint notion?

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  33. Mannwich - I kid you not, the town I was from did have a voluteer police dept.

    They worked with the paid cops, so there was a mix of voluteer, paid.

    I was friends with the former chief of police one year they were having budget cut backs and needed to find some ways to cut back the police budget, I suggested to him they just hire rent a cops.

    Somehow he did not find too much humor in that.

    Mutt

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  34. What continues to amaze me is that the snarky flame throwers continue to find us and want to post here. If you want to engage in a real substantive debate, let's do it, but if you want to just toss grenades around to get a reaction like an 8-year old, I'll pass. This is what bothered me about the other site.

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  35. I hear you, Mutt, but some of the paid cops in my town were downright scary with the power trips they would go on. I can only imagine what they'd be like if they were volunteers. Scary.

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  36. Mutt,

    Thanks for the observations. Obviously Lou Mish is an idiot.

    There are many volunteer organizations that are run superbly by selfless well trained folks, no doubt about that. But the vast majority of America is served well by our paid professionals, and they are professionals who earn every penny of their pay.

    To suggest that we go to a volunteer force simply to save money is utterly ridiculous.

    The day Lou Mish signs up for a volunteer fireman position is the day I will change my mind.

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  37. @Manny,

    New flame throwers, same as the old flame throwers. Google Analytics does not lie.

    ReplyDelete
  38. @Just Say No: And again, am happy to engage in real debate and admit I'm wrong if you pose a strong, coherent argument (see the prior thread for an example of that).

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  39. And I would not even upgrade them to being called flame throwers. They are cowards who are too ashamed of their own identities to post under their own names.

    That's how you know that their intentions are dishonorable and their demands that we answer their questions so pathetic.

    Hard to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man. (and unnamed person)

    I also love it when they go back to the other site and whine about us. We must have some really secret aphrodisiac over here that they just can't stay away.

    Hey Mutt, we need some extra strength eau de'Mutt over here.

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  40. Wow, this must be embarrassing for Ahmadinejad:
    l
    Ahmadinejad Slapped by Revolutionary Guard Chief of Staff

    "According to source, Ahmedinejad's statements infuriated Revolutionary Guard Chief of Staff Mohammed Ali Jafari, who exclaimed "You are wrong! (In fact) it is YOU who created this mess! And now you say give more freedom to the press?!" Source said that Jafarli then slapped Ahmedinejad in the face, causing an uproar and an immediate call for a break in the meeting, which was never resumed."

    Wikileaks!

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  41. Maybe I need to change my picture to Christina Hendricks just so people will know how hot I am.

    Joan Harris

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  42. Thanks Manny. Cool headline BTW. Put another way, could have coined it "Social classes battle royale edition".

    re Elites: why not check how the web describes the term? Elite

    The elite at the top of the social strata almost invariably puts it in a position of leadership, whether it be expected or volunteered, and often subjects the holders of elite status to pressure to maintain that leadership position as part of status..

    I think it's those "elites at the top of the social strata" that we're talking about mainly. Even then, the notion of "elites" remains blurry. A blurriness which fits this concept well after all, being some kind of behind the scene species.

    Other synonyms could be "immoral group of people that would do anything to maintain their top status, including lying to their kindred, cheating, stealing, and eventually killing if needs be."

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  43. Not sure when the whining started - before or after but like night follows day...

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  44. Thanks Manny. Cool headline BTW. Put another way, could have coined it "Social classes battle royale edition".

    re Elites: why not check how the web describes the term? Elite

    The elite at the top of the social strata almost invariably puts it in a position of leadership, whether it be expected or volunteered, and often subjects the holders of elite status to pressure to maintain that leadership position as part of status..

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  45. I think it's those "elites at the top of the social strata" that we're talking about mainly. Even then, the notion of "elites" remains blurry. A blurriness which fits them well after all, being some kind of behind the scene species.

    Other synonyms could be "immoral group of people that would do anything to maintain their top status, including lying to their kindred, cheating, stealing, and eventually killing if needs be."

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  46. Rally petered out a bit. Very nearly jumped short on a stock with a massive three-year h&s pattern (did I say that right, you chart peeps??!?!) forming I've been watching for a long time now, but alas, couldn't pull the trigger. Ended down quite a bit too after I couldn't muster the courage when it kept hitting support and failing to break through the past few trading days.

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  47. Thanks for weighing in, Wolfie. This was MY definition above:

    "What I mean by that are those who clearly have the power to influence and set the bigger picture policy agenda for the country. Those people have waged war on the rest of us with their self-serving policies and are largely responsible for the predicament we are in. It's clearly the result of a failure leadership by the "elites"."

    Not much different from the one you found, I think.

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  48. I thought this was an interesting and potentially ominous sign. Restaurant index slips in Nov.

    http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2011/01/restaurant-performance-index-slips-in.html

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  49. Mannwich - I have a rudimentary understanding of charts and so far to me they do a good job of showing were we have been.

    Now manybe there are people out there who can use those charts to get a better image of where we could be heading and if so more power to them

    But at this point I am too scared to go long the market and too scared to short it.

    With the Fed backing this market, it could push to even crazier hights and who knows maybe it will stay there and everything will be all hunky dory in market land for ever.

    But what I think will happen is some small that everyone will look past will occure and the market will start to decline, slowly at first (Cuz everyone will think the Feds will pick it up)then catch fire and send not only the market, but the small economic recovery over the edge.

    So here I sit on my hands.

    Mangy Mutt

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  50. The perfect contrarian indicator, Byron Wien? I realize predictions like this are hard to nail, but getting all ten wrong? That's quite a feat.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/byron-wiens-prediction-track-record-zero-out-ten

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  51. @dss,

    Re Ahmedinejad and Shah of Iran. No difference for the masses! Ambition and control. There is a spiritual sect in Iran called sufis. If you love poetry, read Rumi, translated by Coleman Barks, a prof. who teaches(taught?) at a Texas University. Just beautiful!

    ICan

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  52. @Wolfie,

    An accurate description, somehow you managed to put a definition to the word "elite" even though it was so "undefinable".

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  53. Some more definitions from the dictionary:

    –noun
    1.
    ( often used with a plural verb ) the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.
    2.
    ( used with a plural verb ) persons of the highest class: Only the elite were there.
    3.
    a group of persons exercising the major share of authority or influence within a larger group: the power elite of a major political party.
    4.
    a type, approximately 10-point in printing-type size, widely used in typewriters and having 12 characters to the inch. Compare pica1 .
    –adjective
    5.
    representing the most choice or select; best: an elite group of authors.

    I also like this defintion:

    Main Entry: elite
    Part of Speech: noun
    Definition:

    high-class persons
    Synonyms: aristocracy, beautiful people, best, blue blood, carriage trade, celebrity, choice, country club set, cream, crowd, crème de la crème, elect, establishment, fast lane, fat*, flower, gentility, gentry, glitterati, high society, in-crowd, jet-set, main line, nobility, old money, optimacy, pride, prime, prize, quality, select, society, top, upper class, upper crust


    Antonyms: commonality, low-life, lower class, ordinary

    ReplyDelete
  54. This is very good and spot ON about the true intentions behind these deficit scare discussions from the Right. Trying to get the Sheeple to austertize themselves in the name of greater "sacrifice" while our masters give up nothing.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dean-baker/hugh-jidette-goes-to-wash_b_803618.html

    ReplyDelete
  55. @dss(6:37)


    I read that post earlier at the BusinessInsider. Some of the comments are hilarious.

    All Ems's basic funding is from carry currencies of Yen, the U$D and the Euro.

    Dead-end western multinationals took capital and know-how to the "East".

    India is democratic/socialist country. Think like Greece and club Med countries. China can bulldoze it's way to build infrastructure, India cannot.

    State politicians, police, bureucrats are corrupt- 95%. But there are signs of hope at the top. The current PM is the best ever India could hope for. He stated to liberalize trade when he was a finance minister in the 1990s. He was educated at Oxford.

    India has done well to assimilate and educated the massses, and become self-sufficient in food.

    There is a quota system - in education, all levels of govt politics, judiciary, police, education etc. to assimilate women, lower classes, minorities, marginalized people etc.

    The dark side of the story is pollution, cancer trains, people not willing to move/give up their place or ideas, too many regional factions, still clinging to beliefs or idealogy of thousands of years past, apathy,and ignorance, lack of ethics etc.


    There is no lack of work or food for people in India. Only some aren't willing to move or learn new trades. Bloomberg had a story on up comin "trillion $ " infrastrucutre plan, and lack of skilled workers.

    ICan

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  56. There is a huge demand for energy in India - wood, coal, Nat gas, oil. India imports all of them. Yes wood is still used by rural folks for household use. Liquid nat.gas is rationed. Anyone company who can supply nat. gas in India for cooking/heating will make lot of money.

    "Incredible run in the coal space". via Trader Mark - fundmymutualfund.com

    ICan

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  57. @Dss

    "some really secret aphrodisiac over here"

    are the clear thinkers, named Dss, Mannwich, Mutt, Wolfstreet, Steve, and a few others.

    I read other blogs, and wow, there are some pretty bizarre thinkers out there. Unless they are posting for effect, which is possible.

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  58. @Mutt

    sorry to disappoint you, my friend, but once I got "invited" to become a volunteer, I used one vacation week to go through training, plus 2 weekends per year.

    They just don't throw bodies at fires anymore. You really do need the training and understanding of how to handle pretty standardized equipment, and emergency situations. Also the training helped me at work to calm myself when attacked. So it was worth the weekends of not hunting......

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  59. @Mutt:

    I understand your concern about "longing". I too have the concern, and did not add to any positions today, but am hoping for a TurnAround Tuesday to add.

    You may wish to consider funds, which seem to behave well during downturns like:

    JAFIX RYTFX PTTDX MWTRX WEFIX PRPIX

    Their upside seems limited, but it seems their downside performance is somewhat better than mine. Ok, well, sometimes a *lot* better than mine, OK?

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  60. @Rock,

    You forgot Thor, Emmy, Dan, Greg, I Can, Wunsacon, and all of those lurkers. (thanks lurkers!)

    One has to differentiate between thinkers and stinkers, talkers and stalkers! They make it so easy!

    There must be something very enticing here that they just cannot stay away despite their protestations to the contrary.

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  61. @Mutt,

    One of the secrets to success in the stock market is determined by when you get in. A good entry trumps almost everything else. Really favorable entry points come up only several times a year so it pays to be on the look out for those times.

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  62. Given some of the definitions above, I guess I'm part of the "elite" class? Please tell me that's not the case. Please tell me that it's only the conservative/libertarian "elites" that are the targets of your ire.


    If that's the case, as I think it is, then your missives on "elites" should have some sort of adjective in front, I.e. "Conservative Elites," or "Libertarian Elites," or "Non-Liberal Elites.". This is an important distinction as "elitism" does not discriminate along political affiliation.

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  63. Andy,

    You must be one lonely guy with all the time in the world to come to a site you ridicule, to engage in silly arguments about semantics with people you claim to despise, for what purpose?

    Geez Louise, get a hobby. Call a friend, do volunteer work.

    Your sick and creepy obsession with us just doesn't end, does it?

    Mutt, obviously Andy needs a friend or maybe just a good leg humping to make him feel better.

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  64. I am everyones friend :)

    Mutt

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  65. @Mutt

    Up a little late tonite, aren't we? Or is it a full moon, and we have the desire to howl?

    Dss is right about timing to get in. The problem is, how do you ever get in, that is, how can you be sure your timing is good or bad?

    If a market is trending up, and a stock is trending with the market, and the stock's relative strength (that is, it's percent gain is greater than the market's percent gain)is good, then it is a candidate (for me) to enter.

    So to enter that stock, I look for a pullback. I look to the 3LB to determine if it's a reversal or a pullback, and make a judgement on the volume and price action during the pullback to confirm whether I enter or not. I look to possible resistance levels which I choose to be "recent", not "Last April" like Barry and Peter to assess the risk. Then I enter on the start of the rebound after the pullback. I set a stop loss order at my pre-order loss amount ($100, $200, or whatever) then watch the price action. If I get a W formation where the right side of the low of the W is higher, I add at that point.

    So When to enter is key. But you will never be able to consistently pick a bottom (or a top for a short), so you might as well enter when your probability of making money is highest.

    IMHO, to enter a long position now with a loose stop is ill-advised, because I, like Mannwich and Cooper and Dastro, believe we are headed for a mid-month correction. So I will keep my stops tight.

    My rule #1 is "protect your (no, my) capital."

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  66. @Hillary

    to use this name as your label to attempt to lend it's credibility to your position is, in my opinion, an abomination.

    Rot.

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  67. @Rock,

    I will disagree with you about never being able to pick a bottom to enter. Tops are tricky, bottoms are well defined by divergences, etc.

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