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Thursday, January 27, 2011

I came across these two pieces of information recently and though I would share it with the group. Without taking a position on the matter myself, I felt they offered a counter argument to the endless suicide-inducing stress fest we are fed daily on this subject from both the main stream media and econoblogosphere.

Misunderstandings Regarding State Debt, Pensions, and Retiree Health Costs Create Unnecessary Alarm

Summary

A spate of recent articles regarding the fiscal situation of states and localities have lumped together their current fiscal problems, stemming largely from the recession, with longer-term issues relating to debt, pension obligations, and retiree health costs, to create the mistaken impression that drastic and immediate measures are needed to avoid an imminent fiscal meltdown.

The large operating deficits that most states are projecting for the 2012 fiscal year, which they have to close before the fiscal year begins (on July 1 in most states), are caused largely by the weak economy. State revenues have stabilized after record losses but remain 12 percent below pre-recession levels, and localities also are experiencing diminished revenues. At the same time that revenues have declined, the need for public services has increased due to the rise in poverty and unemployment. Over the past three years, states and localities have used a combination of reserve funds and federal stimulus funds, along with budget cuts and tax increases, to close these recession-induced deficits. While these deficits have caused severe problems and states and localities are struggling to maintain needed services, this is a cyclical problem that ultimately will ease as the economy recovers.

Unlike the projected operating deficits for fiscal year 2012, which require near-term solutions to meet states’ and localities’ balanced-budget requirements, longer-term issues related to bond indebtedness, pension obligations, and retiree health insurance — discussed more fully below — can be addressed over the next several decades. It is not appropriate to add these longer-term costs to projected operating deficits. Nor should the size and implications of these longer-term costs be exaggerated, as some recent discussions have done. Such mistakes can lead to inappropriate policy prescriptions.


Pension Obligations

Some observers claim that states and localities have $3 trillion in unfunded pension liabilities and that pension obligations are unmanageable, may cause localities to declare bankruptcy, and are a reason to enact a federal law allowing states to declare bankruptcy. Some also are calling for a federal law to force states and localities to change the way they calculate their pension liabilities (and possibly to change the way they fund those liabilities as well). Such claims overstate the fiscal problem, fail to acknowledge that severe problems are concentrated in a small number of states, and often promote extreme actions rather than more appropriate solutions.

A debate has begun over what assumptions public pension plans should use for the “discount rate,” which is the interest rate used to translate future benefit obligations into today’s dollars. The discount rate assumption affects the stated future liabilities and may affect the required annual contributions. The oft-cited $3 trillion estimate of unfunded liabilities calculates liabilities using what is known as the “riskless rate,” because the pension obligations themselves are guaranteed and virtually riskless to the recipients. In contrast, standard analyses based on accepted state and local accounting rules, which calculate liabilities using the historical return on plans’ assets, put the unfunded liability at about a quarter of that amount, a more manageable (although still troubling) $700 billion.

Muni Bonds: Default Fears May Be Overblown

As investors flee, some analysts say predictions of widespread defaults, spurred by big state deficits and lost tax revenues, are lacking in evidence

Tom Kozlik, a municipal bond analyst for Philadelphia brokerage Janney Montgomery Scott, sent clients a note on Jan. 14 reminding them of Warren Buffett's advice for navigating market turmoil: Be greedy when others are fearful. There's been plenty of fear in the $2.9 trillion U.S. state and local government bond market, typically a safe haven for individuals seeking tax-free returns and little risk of default. With states facing budget deficits estimated at as much as $140 billion and cities reeling from tax revenue lost during the housing market bust, some are calling that safety into doubt.

Meredith Whitney, the banking analyst who won fame for predicting that Citigroup (C) would be forced to cut its dividend in 2008, says she expects as many as 100 municipal defaults this year, adding up to "hundreds of billions" in debt. On Jan. 11, Edmund F. Kelly, chief executive officer of insurer Liberty Mutual, said his firm has cut its holdings of municipal debt in Connecticut, California, and Illinois, three states that are heavily indebted and strapped for cash, saying the market was being propped up by the belief that Washington will bail out local governments. JPMorgan Chase (JPM) CEO Jamie Dimon, speaking at a health-care conference on Jan. 11, warned of municipal bankruptcies on the horizon, cautioning investors in the market to be "very, very careful."

Again, I present this information to you without taking a position on this issue myself.

133 comments:

  1. Thanks, Thor. Great post.

    We have put ourselves into the position of paying maybe too much pension and public employee retirement benefit. There was a time when public employees in the US did the work as almost volunteer, and not for a comfortable place to wait for retirement.

    In the city of Palo Alto, if you work there for 5 years, you and your direct family and dependents are fully vested at your retirement in the city's health plan. And if you work there for 10 years, the city will pay all your premiums, so you don't have to worry about making the payments either.

    Not quite what you get with your 401K.

    And we won't mention cities like San Jose that pump up a retiree's final pay grade just before they leave the government's employ so their pension is = their current salary.

    I think we need to revisit the time when working in the government was a service to the community, not a career.

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  2. Thor,

    Good topic. I think that the fears about the muni market are way overblown. Illinois, the worst state fiscally has instituted a huge increase in the income tax, which was needed for years, but political poison, until now.

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  3. Does anyone else find this market's agonizingly slow motion (albeit steady) march upward just about every day for four months+ now a bit strange?

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  4. Sharp increase in unemployment claims.

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  5. But I'm sure those banking execs just slap a "support our troops" sticker on their cars and call it "all good". It's "just business", right?

    http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/01/us-soldiers-losing-homes-to-illegal-foreclosures/

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  6. Manny,

    There are many buyers who have no where else to put their money, domestically and internationally.

    Bonds yield are small, and real estate is still falling.

    Obviously, there is no fear in the market even at these prices.

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  7. Manny,

    It is the American way and capitalism at it's finest.

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  8. This is pretty funny - the pecking order at Davos plus the mistresses:

    Jealous Davos Mistresses

    Of Snubs and Men

    The point about Davos is that it makes everyone feel wildly insecure. Billionaires and heads of state alike are all convinced that they have been given the worst hotel rooms, put on the least interesting panels and excluded from the most important events/most interesting private dinners. The genius of World Economic Founder Klaus Schwab is that he has been able to persuade hundreds of accomplished businessmen to pay thousands of dollars to attend an event which is largely based on mass humiliation and paranoia.

    Wives feel sympathetic to their husbands and share their pain. But we have our own problems to cope with. After all, we are the on the bottom rung of the Davos ladder.

    The most revealing sign of our lowly status is that we are forced to wear the ultimate badge of shame — the white name tag.

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  9. Imagine the shame at getting a bad hotel room in Davos when you are a billionaire.

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  10. "The wives’ name tag guarantees that the Davos man in question will instantly decide you are of no value and so he immediately looks over your shoulder for the next best opportunity, i.e. someone without a white name tag who is, by definition, more important than you. Many wives refuse to be Davos wives and the white name tag is the reason they most often cite for their decision to stay home."

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  11. @Denise: Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

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  12. "the white name tag"! The world-ending shame!

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  13. Sarkozy says he and Merkel will never abandon euro

    French President Nicolas Sarkozy passionately defended the euro against skeptics at the World Economic Forum on Thursday, saying he and German Chancellor Angela Merkel would never let the currency fall.

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  14. The Davos article was written by the wife of Joseph Stiglitz.

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  15. I simply can't imagine living in a world where there's that much pettiness.

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  16. Morning all!

    Rock - You have to admit though, that Palo Alto wouldn't be the best example to use here. I'd imagine that Palo Alto would be able to afford to give it's public employees anything that it would want, that those benefits would still be grossly below what the average citizen in Palo Alto is getting paid, and that even with those benefits, the average Palo Alto citizen wouldn't be caught dead working for the city.

    Bottom line for me on this topic though, is similar to my position on immigration. Let's shift the anger and blame on this topic away from the right wing plutocracy's focus on public employees themselves, and move that spotlight where it belongs; on the politicians who agreed to these "outrageous" benefits in the first place as well as their corporate masters on Wall Street who have sold all the cities and states on creative financing (the selling of the tobacco settlement for instance) so that they could keep the bread and circuses coming.

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  17. Manny,

    The article was pretty funny, actually. More about the pecking order of life at the highest levels, which could be applied in so many social situations.

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  18. DSS - I just heard that on the radio! Did Sarkozy just sign the death warrant for the Euro? Wolfie, what's your take on that comment? Does your president know anything at all about international finance?

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  19. Manny,

    You already do live in that world. There is a pecking order at all social levels.

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  20. FYI for those not in the know. Palo Alto is a southern suburb of San Francisco, Stanford is located there. Probably one of the wealthiest cities in the country - Los Altos Hills, which is often listed as THE most expensive town in the country is right next door.

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  21. I simply can't imagine living in a world where there's that much pettiness.

    Come spend a week in LA ;-)

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  22. A nice little sell off, with the emphasis on little. No downside urgency or big volume.

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  23. Or spend time observing the local PTA meetings.

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  24. Sarkozy is crazy. He will be out of office if and when it happens, but all of the problems that the Euro critics had 10 years ago are coming true.

    If Germany and France want to keep bailing out the rest of Europe I guess the Euro will survive, but at some point there is not enough money in the world to save them from their own debts.

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  25. HAH! Right down the road from where we live in Palm Springs! Shall I run down this weekend and join the protest?

    Have always though it was so strange to see the juxtoposition of uber wealthy, uber conservative Rancho Mirage, Palm Desert, and Indian Wells, with uber Liberal Palm Springs

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/48277.html

    This weekend, for the eighth straight year, the billionaire Koch brothers will convene a meeting of roughly 200 wealthy businessmen, Republican politicians and conservative activists for a semi-annual conference to raise millions of dollars for the institutions that form the intellectual foundation – and, increasingly, the leading political edge – of the conservative movement.

    Common Cause, the liberal watchdog group, is planning a protest called “Uncloaking the Kochs” and what it calls “the billionaires caucus” on Sunday a few miles down the road from the resort in Rancho Mirage, Calif., where this weekend’s conference will be held, and a handful of reporters have made plans to try to cover the Koch’s closed-door gathering.

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  26. Analysis: Emerging market companies buy up the world

    "The three words that characterize the last decade have been 'Made in China'. The three words that are likely to dominate the next decade will be 'Owned by China'," said Gerard Lyons, chief economist at Standard Chartered.

    "And by the time we move to the 2020s it will be 'Paid in renminbi'."

    China may grab the most headlines, but it is not alone. Acquisitive companies from India, Mexico, Russia, Brazil and South Korea are also on the prowl.

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  27. Thor,

    What I want to know is how come these people were not invited to Davos?

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  28. Check NVDA's action. It's bumped 25 3 times on the 60 minute. If we get a lower low than 23.80, we just might see a reaction.

    I started a little short at 24.68, added at 24.65, and again at 24.66. I don't often get to see these kind of bumps.

    A market order below the 23.75 might make a bucky or two.

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  29. @Thor:
    It's too cold there. I turned down my invite.....

    :-)>

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  30. Denise & Manny, I have something even more hilarious than Palin or Bachman running for Pres. Now all we need is O'Donnell and we're set.

    Angle won't rule out W.H. bid
    By JENNIFER EPSTEIN | 1/27/11 10:25 AM

    On a visit to Iowa for a movie premiere, the Nevada Republican says she has "lots of options."

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  31. Rock - Hah!

    Denise - We should remember that quote! It sounds a lot like the "Japan buying up the world" from the 90's. I know I could be horrible wrong in this call, but I don't think China will exist as it does today 20 years from now.

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  32. One reason (a BIG one) why I don't live there. Fun place to visit though.

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  33. Manny - where are you talking about? Davos, NYC, LA, Palo Alto, Rancho Mirage? :-) We're traveled the world this morning!

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  34. True Denise, but some places (and levels) are more petty (and worse) than others. Trust me, it's not the same everywhere.

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  35. Exactly the same, I should say. Different cultures and different places.

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  36. All of the above, Thor. NYC, been there done that. Davos, couldn't afford it. Ditto Palo Alto or anywhere in the Bay Area. LA I could grin and bear it if only for the weather.

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  37. Manny,

    You are exactly right, some places are better or worse, but the pettiness and pecking order nonsense exists. Just like in the animal kingdom, the strong assert themselves and everyone else better get out of the way.

    Everything in life is a fight to try and get to a higher plane.

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  38. Agreed Denise. Even here on this very blog!

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  39. Thor,

    The biggest difference is that Japan was already a developed nation 20 years ago, China and the rest are not. Plus China, and India have 2.5 billion people combined and Japan only has 127 million.

    Nigeria has 158 million, more than Japan's 127 million, I never knew they were so populated.

    Interesting population chart:

    List of population by country.

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  40. This "Budak0n" guy is quite the piece of work over BR's site.

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  41. Maybe it is all of the Nigerian's with their email scams who are buying US stocks.

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  42. Manny,

    I noticed you had quite a relationship going with him. I could not resist...

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  43. @Denise: Yeah, but I severed it (wisely, I think). No use arguing with someone like that. Waste of time.

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  44. Denise - yup yup, I Think that population difference makes China's future even cloudier though. There's no physical way they are ever going to bring most of the 1 billion they still have living in poverty up to the same standard of living so many of the city folk on the coasts are now enjoying, there just aren't enough resources on the planet for that to happen. Plus their demographics problem - both too many men, and too many old people in about 20 years.

    Manny - I've seen him! I think he's a joke, don't think he's serious. Another Harry W and Cognos, only on the other side of the political spectrum. BR's site has changed over the last year though, you don't get these right wing nut jobs spouting off without challenge anymore like we did a couple years ago. There are enough intelligent people on the left and center to call them out on their BS pretty quick.

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  45. All the sacred cows are coming under fire:

    G.O.P. Splits Over Plans to Cut Defense Budget

    WASHINGTON — To hear the Republican leadership tell it, the once-sacred Pentagon budget, protected by the party for generations, is suddenly on the table. But a closer look shows that even as Speaker John A. Boehner and Representative Eric Cantor, the House majority leader, insist on the need for military cuts, divisions have opened among Republicans about whether, and how much, to chop Pentagon spending that comes to more than a half trillion dollars a year.

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  46. If the R's can actually push through major cuts to the Pentagon budget, that will cause me to seriously re-think my opinions of their commitment to reducing the budget. I've been under the impression so far, that that's been mostly talking points on their part and that when it came right down to it, they would do what all R's usually do and balk at making cuts where they really matter - ie; Defense, and farm subsidies.

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  47. @Thor,

    Those guys seem so much like cartoon characters now, certainly not credible in any sense, but also suffering delusions of grandeur and self righteousness.

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  48. Gates was talking about a laughable reduction of 78b over 5 years, which is like a rounding error to the defense budget.

    They can start saving a whole bunch by shutting down the 1 trillion and counting wars, and shutting down the bases around the world.

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  49. More protests, this time in Yemen:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/28/world/middleeast/28yemen.html?_r=1&hp

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  50. This is great. Love the accent.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/26/michele-bachmanns-sotu-rebuttal-rehearsal_n_814575.html

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  51. From PragCap -

    http://pragcap.com/goldman-sachs-the-bull-market-in-commodities-is-not-over

    A recent strategy notes from Goldman’s commodities team says the bull market is far from over and commodities could rally almost 20% this year:

    “Although commodities overall have performed extremely well since the end of November, what has been notable is the performance of the more cyclical commodities like oil and copper, which joined the rally in agricultural commodities even as gold prices faltered. This is the first time since the summer of 2009 that gold did not lead the commodity complex higher on a sustained basis, which highlights the substantial changes that have occurred in the global financial landscape in recent months as the US economic recovery has shifted onto a much more solid footing. This shift is central to our view for 2011, as we expect cyclical commodities to enter a bull market, augmenting the bull market in agricultural commodities that began in 2010.

    On net, while near term we are Neutral on commodities given the sharp run up in prices during December, on a 6-mo and 12-mo basis we remain Overweight and are raising our 12-mo return forecast on the S&P GSCI Enhanced Total Return index to 18.6% due to sooner-than-expected backwardation in many commodity forward curves. Driving this return is not only cyclical commodities like oil and copper where we maintain very positive medium-term views, but also the agriculture and livestock sectors.”


    God has spoken people - you know what that means, BUY BUY BUY.

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  52. Speaker of the HouseJanuary 27, 2011 at 12:29 PM

    So my wife has FINALLY decided to get her citizenship. Yesterday was she took the citiznship test. You know the one were they ask you all about they United States.

    So she has been studying for it and on of the questions on the list is "Who is the Speaker of the House" And she asks me who is the Speaker, so I tell her Boehner. To which she says, "Oh that will be easy enuff to rememeber, I'll just remember him as Bonner"

    Anyway, she past the test (Heck it took more time to find a parking spot then it did for her to take the test)

    But because of the time the test was scheduled there was no way we could get my son to school and still make the test, so we kept him home yesterday (Yea, he was REALLLLLLYYYYY bumbed about that - NOT)

    But in order to have an excused absents, he needs a signed note, so this morning I wrote him a note -

    "Please Excuse xxxxxxxx from school yesterday. He was not able to make it because his mother is not an American"

    I am curious how the school will take that :)

    Mangy Mutt

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  53. Mutt - Congratulations to you and your wife!! You HAVE to tell us if the school responds to that note!

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  54. @Mutt:

    You're not stroking the fur the wrong way, are you?

    Congrats to you and your wife. Now, you know, it's illegal for her to hide any income from the other country! I remember when I went to my ex-mother-in-law's swearing in. It's quite moving.

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  55. Borowitz Report:

    Gop Accuses Rahm Emmanuel of living in Kenya!

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  56. @MAnnwich:

    I think it will take much longer than 20 years for China to evolve. It will evolve because the Chinese leadership is so adept at mass hysteria, mass psychology, and how to play one human asset off on another. Remember, China is so huge they don't even have one common language, and I think there's not yet a complete freeway going border-to-border.

    @Dss
    The other thing about the Japanese is they are inbred. Nobody's successfully occupied their island long enough to get a different gene pool in there. I lived there in '73, and was dating this young Japanese lady, until her father found out. I was visited by yakuza. Needless to say, no gene pool dilution there! But a cohesive population is very beneficial for national unity. I mean, everybody there agrees they should change presidents every year or oftener.

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  57. Oh darn, NVDA's inching back up. Have to wait and see now if I get a lower high. I didn't get a lower low.

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  58. @Thor,

    When Goldman says something run for the hills in the opposite direction. Means they already established their position and now need to cash in.

    I was reading an article about how Goldman tried to screw over Jim Clark founder of Netscape.

    Billionaire Jim Clark: "The Goldman-Facebook Deal Is Just Another Way For The Firm To Make Money From Its Clients"

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  59. Rock,

    USA and Japan, two largest economies, no where to go but down.

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  60. Interesting stock market commentary:

    Cherish Your Stock Market

    It is past obvious to market participants that at the very highest levels of our government, the unstated policy is to get the stock market up. It is how companies measure their success. It is the basis for our sentiment and outlook on a day to day basis. And with the market all the way back to where they were before the credit crisis, the government–in cahoots with the media–can say that the crisis is over and everything is back to normal. The public doesn’t want to know how we got here, but that we are here. Mission Accomplished!

    But the best part of the stock markets high level is that analysts and strategists can say that the economy is roaring back too. Since we’ve been told that the stock market is a “discounting mechanism”, why else would it be so relentless and seemingly powerful? This perception was prevalent during the run up to the end of the year and the holiday shopping season. But less than one month into the new year, the numbers are saying something else entirely. Production and consumption are weakening after the holiday bounce. The only recovery is a perceived one based solely on market gains. Let’s look at those gains.

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  61. @Dss
    What's your guess will happen when US debt gets the downgrade action?

    Treasuries fall, yields up, market skyrockets?

    I don't think we can go to school on the Nikkei because the Japanese people own most of the debt, and the Chinese own the majority of the rest, quite a different situation than US debt.

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  62. Bot's are buying this market, very few negative ticks, relentless small march up to the 1296.00 level.

    No one is selling.

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  63. @Rock,

    Your guess is as good as mine. Obviously, the entire bond complex takes a hit, rates rise, but I can't imagine the stock market going up on credit quality concerns.

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  64. Rock - I would NEVER stroke the fur in the wrong direction, Ok maybe just a little.

    For an excused absents, the school requires a signed note from a parent, my son missed school because his mother is not yet an American, there for it is a legitamet excuse :)

    When she gets sworn in, he will probably miss school that day too, so they will get a note saying "Please excuse xxxxxx he missed school yesterday, because his mother is an American"

    That should explain everything.....

    She is happy the process is almost over, she could have and should have done this years ago, she just did not have the need.

    Thank you everyone for the congradulations, when she gets sworn in, I will email you all a piece of cake.


    Mutt

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  65. There has been no serious selling of this market since the May-June time frame, which is unprecedented, the buyers are fearless and relentless.

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  66. Any major pop over 1300 will create a buying stampede. We have been consolidating these gains instead of pulling back to any known support which is very bullish in the short run.

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  67. Market first rejected a high over y high and then rejected the lows of today. Ticks have barely gone below zero before more buying comes in.

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  68. *sigh* I somehow got stuck in last nights thread and kept hitting refresh and wondering where the hell everyone went. I am not a morning person.

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  69. @Denise:the buyers are fearless and relentless.: Terminator doesn't have feelings.

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  70. Denise - Why shouldn't the buyers be fearless, they know their backs will be taken care of....for awhile.

    Wolfstreet - LOL (1:45)

    Mutt

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  71. @Denise:Any major pop over 1300 will create a buying stampede

    I hear many people making this same prediction. That if we break, we're in for another leg up. I certainly hope you're wrong on that one, and that it doesn't break resistance to begin with.:p

    I'm fed up watching the train going full steam ahead when I'm not on the bandwagon..

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  72. This market or whatever you want to call it is really quite bizarre, if you ask me.

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  73. @Rock,

    Look at Suncor chart. Doesn't want to break above $40. Pulled back again.

    Not Selling her(it) here.


    ICan

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  74. Manny - Just wait until all those debt purchases for QE2 really get started. Betcha we blow out the previous highs before it's all said and done. I hope the boomers are smart enough to cash out once we get back to the old highs.

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  75. Next stop up is the 1313 level from 2008, then 1423 and then the full retrace to 1576 in 2007.

    The top was three plus years ago, no reason for it not to retrace there in the next year or two. Obviously, there is no selling or fear at these levels.

    From the bottom in 2002, the rally lasted until 2007, five years.

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  76. What is much different is that the rally from 2002-2007 added 77% to the S&P.

    We have added 86% since the bottom in March 09, going back up to 1576 will be quite an impressive percentage gain.

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  77. @Rock(1:02)


    Japan and Immigration. That's my observation also. I do respect their work ethic though. I was read something similar to your experience at BR's comments section on Japan post sometime ago. A guy who does business with some Japanese firm was writing that they(the Japanese are very protective of their women - He wasn't allowed to go to a strip club where Japanese women work).

    Japan is India's seventh biggest source of FDI. In 2010, alone they invested $1.2 billion. 1$ = 45 rupees.

    I wonder how long this strategy of creating work off-shore will work. But that's them to decide.

    ICan

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  78. Nice post Thor,

    There you have two routes
    Past says in 40 years only 4 cities defaulted.

    The only that I remember was Orange county and bondholders where make mostly or completely whole if I'm not mistaken.And keep the mill running.

    Meredith Withney says is going to be 100 cities defaulting.

    One route
    a)Predicting the past says no huge amount of defaults should happen.

    b)But on the other hand could be approached as this time is no different.

    Second route
    MW is a bright person and to state something that rotund, her reasons probably exceed what is common knowledge.If she doesn't have that inside knowledge it will be a massive flounder for her.
    If defaults become the strategy instead of rack up taxes will be all by themselves, and I doubt it because that will imply Wall Street killing the goose who lay golden eggs.

    Who knows, something that makes me suspicios of a massive scale default is J.Dimon pandering the fears, I highly doubt that he is into helping the common investor through public media.
    Dan

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  79. Some really unusual movements in the stock I'm shorting. Just strange stuff today. Maybe the work of bots trying to gun this thing higher?

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  80. In the absence of any real volume, I might add.

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  81. @Manny,

    The entire market feels like it wants to go higher. We are very close to an inflection point and there is just no backing down.

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  82. New 52-week high for GE. Maybe that new gig with the O man helping matters for GE? LOL.

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  83. I agree, Denise. There's just no fear, which means no sellers. This is the Greenie put X 100 or more. Seriously, the Bernank Put is in full effect here. I don't care what the Fed naysayers say.

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  84. We reach 7 times the last few days around 1300 levels.

    Could this be an septuple top??
    Dan

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  85. Getting the market up and keeping it up is the goal of TPTB. It is such a low cost stimulus that puts money into everyone's pockets and has the added benefit of making everyone feel good as their investments are doing well.

    Was listening to folks at a dinner and all they could talk about was how much their accounts had recovered and their plans for vacations, fixing up the house, buying a better car, etc.

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  86. Plus if people are not afraid of the market they don't cash out of their mutual funds, which also keeps the institutions (the largest players) from having to sell.

    More money comes in and they are required to put it to work.

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  87. Dan - Thanks! Personally, I think "reality" is somewhere between the more optimistic outcomes these two articles present, and the "all is lost" meme that Mish and ZH are always hyperventilating about.

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  88. Thor,

    I have to agree with that. If our village has to cut more services to balance the budget (laying off folks, delaying purchases) the world is not going to come to an end and we continue to pay our muni bond interest.

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  89. @Emmy,

    Cotton's hot!

    ICan

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  90. @Ican:
    RE SU
    I'm thinking you may find something that would do better. Relative strength of SU is not good, it's currently tracking the S&P and seems to be turning down.

    Just for fun, have a look at VMC. They make asphalt, sand and gravel. The have a clear W formed with higher highs and higher lows on the daily chart. They've been up Jan-April for the last 2 years because that's when everybody orders sand and gravel and asphalt for repaving and summer work. I like that one, maybe to go to 54.

    RE: your 2:25
    I have some really really bad bad off-color humor about that. I know, enough said.

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  91. @ICan, Mannwich
    My useless son told me tonite at his free meal that he's going to buy the gold miners with some of his cash, and asked me (hard to believe, I almost fell out of my chair, which has arms) what I thought.

    Just looking at some of them, it sure looks like they could run. I told him to watch a couple and wait for a higher low.

    But he seems to make pretty good calls. I don't know where he gets his info.

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  92. Mohamed ElBaradei is heading back to Egypt - big protests for tomorrow. Now they have someone to rally behind. . . . Should start getting more heated very very soon.

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  93. Gold is getting crushed again, Copper is up strongly.

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  94. @Denise: Like I've said MANY times, people don't care WHY their holdings are going up. They just feel good when they are.......

    That's really it. I think many of us forget that most people (by far) are far less curious about the inner-workings of the bigger picture outside of their own personal sphere than many of us do. And there's not necessarily anything wrong with that.

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  95. @Rock: If your son does well with his selections, maybe we should all take heed?

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  96. Is gold the leading commodity going forward? The higher the market rallies, the less fear people feel and they start liquidating gold?

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  97. Gold is also diverging in light of the fact of the inflation fears in the other commodities.

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  98. Oil dropping as well. Hopefully it'll keep dropping, I'm getting sick of paying $4.50 a gallon for it.

    ICan - how are gas prices up in Canada?

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  99. @Thor11:24:Does your president know anything at all about international finance?

    Sorry, don't have a clue about that lad. As previously mentioned, politicians all look the same to me, and I seldom waste time listening to those jesters.

    Only thing I'm sure he's got going for him is charisma (that, and his cute wife of course..)

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  100. What's the saying about "not shorting a dull market"? I think this is a perfect example, no?

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  101. @WolfStreet:
    No, the Pres does not have a clue about international finance or trade. The measure of how great a President is, is how excellent his advisors are. I just saw Sec. Locke tell what the government is going to do to help small business. They are going to run monthly workshops.

    They don't understand that trade and finance is built from relationships. There's no way a workshop is going to help a small foundry in Cincinnati sell its iron gas caps in Brazil. A workshop does not establish relationships.

    No, there's no hope for the US to improve its trade exports with the President's Whiz Kids helping us out.

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  102. What a surprise! Microsoft beat estimates!!They fall into the 70% category of businesses beating estimates.

    But it is a surprise the number came out before the bell.

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  103. @Rock: Now trying to gun it higher into the close.

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  104. Look at the volume just take off.

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  105. Great summary about the state of the market and internals by Corey:

    S&P Tempts Traders with 1300 Bull Bear Battle

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  106. @Rock:I was talking about French president Sarkozy, as Thor asked about his abilities in international finance.;)

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  107. Market not liking AMZN numbers after hours, it seems. A harbinger for retail, perhaps?

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  108. Damn, this is a screed for the ages! George Carlin RIP.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr7ePrCAqzo

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  109. @Thor,

    Gas prices in Canada:

    I paid $1.10/liter today, for regular unleaded. Some places gas is $1.24/liter.

    CAD/USD = 1.0061

    U.S. gallon = 3.79L

    That $4.50 you paid, is that for premium? If not then your paying more than me.

    We are paying speculators!

    ICan

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  110. ICan - no sir - that's the price for regular gas at the station around the corner from my house :-( We pay a premium on gas here in CA, I didn't know it was that high a premium!

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  111. Manny,

    I could hear those Carlin rants every day and not get tired of them. RIP, indeed.

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  112. Good article - Just a matter of when at this point.

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/financial-crisis-could-happen-again-2011-01-27?dist=afterbell

    Financial crisis could happen again
    Commentary: We’ve already dismissed lessons of Angelides probe


    WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) – Just about anything that could go wrong, did go wrong. That’s the conclusion of the Angelides commission, which has just released a massive and detailed history of the financial excesses that led to the Great Recession of 2008 and beyond.

    The main conclusion of the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission, led by former California state treasurer Phil Angelides, is that the crisis could have been prevented — if we had designed the proper controls to keep the financial system from going off the rails, and if the watchdogs had been alert. Read MarketWatch’s full coverage of the FCIC report.

    Beginning in the 1970s, we dismantled most of the controls that had prevented a major financial crisis for 50 years, just as the industry adopted new technologies and business models that made a crisis more likely, more global and more potentially devastating.

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  113. Updates on two stories, Tunisian dictator's billionaire family hiding in Canada and the kerosene mafia in India.

    "Canada Revokes Tunisian Billionaire's Residency Status: reports". www.theglobeandmail.com

    "Prime Minister Harper said the deposed dictator and his regime are not welcome in Canada". The comments on this story are funny..someone writes, " Good for Harper. There is room for only one dictator...another writes,"Sorry Mr. Theiving dictator you cann't hide here...you'r former subjects would like to have a word with you".

    The media were relentless.

    ICan

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  114. "Crackdown on oil mafia". http://trubuneindia.com

    "The state govt. of Maharashtra launched a massive crackdown on oil adulteration mafia - 200 places raided and more than 200 people arrested".

    1.5 million govt. employees went on strike to protest against the tax collector's death.

    Govt. declares him a martyr and the family to receive ex gratia of 2.5 million rupees plus other benefits.

    Again the media are doing their job properly!

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  115. Supreme Court of India is after the Central govt. to name names of people who are hiding wealth overseas.

    This isssue is gaining ground and is going to be UGLY for some elites.

    ICan

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  116. I wonder what role technology is playing in latest democratic developments - twitter, mobile phones, internet etc.


    Maybe this is the reason why China forced Google to censor itself.

    ICan

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  117. ICan - a HUGE role I've heard! NPR had a piece on it yesterday I think. Governments can no longer control access to information the way they used to, even if they shut twitter and facebook down in their own countries, people can still dial into an ISP outside the country to gain access.

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  118. "Egypt: Internet down Counter Terror Unit up"- AP

    Twitter and Facebook are already blocked.


    ICan

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  119. Did I call this or what? "Laws" are mere illusions and silly little nuisances to be changed for the priveleged few.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/illinois-supreme-court-puts-rahm-emanuel-back-chicago-mayoral-ballot

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  120. I am going to post the thread for tomorrow early and fill it out later.

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  121. Actually, I think Sarkozy nails it here as well as anyone else could have.....bulls eye.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/sarkozy-goes-postal-jamie-dimon-says-bankers-made-world-madhouse

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  122. The comments on that thread are about as bad as you can get. Tyler needs a moderator over there badly.

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  123. Poverty in the Suburban Sunebelt. Pretty alarming stuff for the U.S.

    http://www.economist.com/node/18010603

    Meanwhile, at Davos, the elites feel "slighted" if they don't get the "right" hotel.....you couldn't make this stuff up.

    http://blogs.reuters.com/davos/2011/01/25/jealous-davos-mistresses/



    The juxtaposition of the two, along with the rioting in places like Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen, etc., is just incredible.

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  124. Heard something on the radio earlier about Egypt that we should keep in mind. So far, the government response has been handled by the police. The Egyptian Military, which is quite large, hasn't even been deployed yet. I wonder how far this could end up going if the military eventually is added into the equation. In the event that they came in on the side of the people, then it's a done deal. Otherwise. . .

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  125. Continuing with last nights premise that the media is in the process of building up Bachmann to be the next Sara Palin

    When Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann was named to the House Intelligence Committee earlier this year, one of her Republican colleagues responded this way: “Is that a punchline?” Another simply said, “Jumbo shrimp. Oxymoron.”

    Bachmann’s Republican critics may be sick of her grandstanding, but they’re more terrified of her tea party following.

    In just her third term, she has developed a fan base like 2008 Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin’s: Energized, fiercely loyal and capable of making a critic’s life miserable with threats of political retribution. She’s also a huge media draw — whether it’s MSNBC, which lampoons her, Fox News, which promotes her, or CNN, which aired her entire State of the Union rebuttal Tuesday night. All that’s missing is a Saturday Night Live spoof.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/48329.html#ixzz1CIcfDBUV



    Politico must have missed the funny spoof we saw today!

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  126. Is it just me, or does this have a Dubai ring to it?

    China to create largest mega city in the world with 42 million people


    China is planning to create the world's biggest mega city by merging nine cities to create a metropolis twice the size of Wales with a population of 42 million.

    City planners in south China have laid out an ambitious plan to merge together the nine cities that lie around the Pearl River Delta.

    The "Turn The Pearl River Delta Into One" scheme will create a 16,000 sq mile urban area that is 26 times larger geographically than Greater London, or twice the size of Wales.

    The new mega-city will cover a large part of China's manufacturing heartland, stretching from Guangzhou to Shenzhen and including Foshan, Dongguan, Zhongshan, Zhuhai, Jiangmen, Huizhou and Zhaoqing. Together, they account for nearly a tenth of the Chinese economy.

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