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Wednesday, February 9, 2011

Patterns

I have read a few books on trading, and usually there is some mention (at least) of candlestick patterns, sometimes referred to as Japanese. There have been whole books written on this subject, so this post is just intended as a simple introduction, which may peak your interest. For those with greater interest, here’s a list of a few of the books:

http://www.candlestickpicks.com/books1.htm

I don’t usually trade off patterns, but there are times when a pattern match is reassuring, and is perhaps one more of the technical factors of a trade to consider when doing your homework.

Additionally, my trading software tool from TDAmeritrade, StrategyDesk, has a feature that you can program in a pattern and the screener will automatically look for that pattern in a list of stocks that you give it. It has a backtest feature where you can take a stock, look for that trading pattern, and place a pretend order, and the backtest will tell you the success rate.

I programmed in a couple patterns and ran the backtest. I will do more as I have the time. But here are some of my observations:

Over the last year, almost all of the short trades lost money. That says, don’t use patterns to go contrary to the market direction. I think I heard that the hedge funds last year did not do as well as expected.

Over the last year, more than 75% of the long trades made money when an additional factor of stochastics < 20% was added in to the backtest. The success rate dropped to almost 20% when the factor of stochastics > 80% was added. That says, don’t chase the market. Set your timing and if you miss, well, accept the fact that you’ve missed, and wait for your setup again.

Here are some of the patterns:

http://www.daytradersbulletin.com/html/cs1.html
http://www.candlestickforum.com/PPF/Parameters/16_332_/candlestick.asp

Here is a common candlestick screener. With this one, it will find a daily chart with the most current day matching the pattern you select:

http://beta.stockfetcher.com/csf/


Additionally, I've heard of the following patterns:
1. RR Track
2. +1 -2 buy setup
3. -1 +2 sell setup
4. Gilligan's Island Buy Signal
5. Oreo Cookie down-up-down sandwich
6. The Bird
7. Sherlock Holmes' pipe
8. N/R7 reversal
9. Hanging Man

I'm probably not qualified to comment on these, but I have a kind of idea. Except for the +1-2 and -1+2 setups, which I heard from Cooper. I’ve read his definition of those maybe 30 times and I still don’t get it when in one of his articles he sees this pattern.

So be careful trading patterns Watch your volumes and stochastics, and above all, set stops to protect your capital.

If anybody’s got success stories trading patterns, a comment would be good.

112 comments:

  1. UBS has record profits.
    http://www.ubs.com/1/e/investors.html?WT.mc_id=RM-SG-ENG-SEM-GOOGLE-UBS_4QE_0802_SG-4QE_PHRASE-UBS_PROFITS-PHRASE

    UBS was a huge recipient of TARP funds. They did repay, but did they say "thanks for the loan, here's a billion or so in your Red Envelope"?

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  2. @Rock

    I can now confidently say that Phil Gramm owes me money.

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  3. Looks like UUP is down a tiny bit, so in theory, SPY should be up.

    I'm putting my free cash in SSO at the open.

    I've never been this excited.

    Unless, of course, SPY recovers by open, it's still an hour away.

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  4. @Rock:"I've never been this excited."

    Ohh I smell the emotional side of ol'Rock taking hold of the rational trader one. Careful:p

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  5. Looking at other's blogs, it seems to me that the AnonyTraders blog is organized in slightly different framework.

    It seems to me, we have people looking around the financial environment and one day, a person may comment on gold, the next day, that same person may comment on Egypt.

    Other blogs seem to have people focusing on more constrained fields. One expert focusing on bonds. One expert focusing on emerging markets. One expert focusing on TDemark. One expert focusing on trends.

    Just out of curiosity, since we have some extremely smart contributors (except me, I'm just humor relief), do we want to organize this so that each of us focuses and the others may trade on the expertise of one?

    Just a thought.

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  6. @WolfStreet:

    Yeah. Thanks.

    I'm returning to earth.

    Looking for the higher lows and higher highs.

    sorry. Again, thanks.

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  7. Did you guys see the Coke report? You're amazing! I mean, I've done my share over here, with my personal and my son's personal consumption, but you guys are over the top!

    I mean, you're up 8%!!!!

    Wow!!!

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  8. Speaking of patterns (whoever brought that up?) did you see AIG head-and-shoulders on the daily chart?

    So which way will this puppy break? My news nose says down.

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  9. Nice post, Rock...

    I like to trade patterns, sure.

    A lot of times the best trade is fading most traders "perception" of them...

    The pattern is created by psychology... so if you can internalize the psychology, and check it against the trend, then there are trades there.

    Some of my favorite patterns to fade are double tops and double bottoms, and both of the H&S... those patterns seem to sucker in folks who like to fight the trend... all the time.

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  10. @Rock,

    Coke Guzzellers: Russia, Turkey, India and South Africa. Euroasia and Africa demand up 14%.

    Nouveau riche want brand names - even their drinks - like Coke and Pepesi ect.

    India has many local Junk sugary softs.

    Pure fresh home made OJ is my fav.


    ICan

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  11. AmenRa has the master of candle stick patterns.

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  12. Morning folks! Great post Rock!

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  13. Moving averages, smas, emas is all I know.



    ICan

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  14. @Anonymous 10:25

    AmenRa is my god of 3LB

    I dunno he is the master of candlestick patterns. I have a book by Cooper that has a bizillion patterns and a discussion of each. I have a book by Alan Farley with patterns and their meaning. Actually, the Farley book is pretty good and I scanned it and have a PDF file (wink wink nod nod).

    In any case, if we have a pattern emerging and a recommendation, we should post it, I think.

    I pretty much watch for the W and M formations, and I put those here, as a rule.

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  15. CAD is green all majors, except the Euro.

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  16. Rock - that's a good idea. Ben at one time linked to a good page with lots of patterns on it. I have that at work, will try to remember to post later when I get into the office.

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  17. Alan Farley

    The Master Swing Trader

    Is that the book you have, Rock? I've owned it for a few years, and found him difficult to follow.


    All of my favorite trading books were written about 100 years ago.

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  18. Rock,

    Pattern recognition is one of the keys to technical analysis, but one must actually learn the pattern structure first.

    The second key is learning to read market structure as patterns work differently in different market environments.

    Market structure can be determined by looking at one instrument, i.e., SPY on several different time frames, and then using other like instruments such as QQQQ, DIA, or IWM to determine RS or how each one sits in relation to their moving averages, support and resistance, or pivot points.

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  19. After Cotton, comes Wheat. China's drought.


    ICan

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  20. @Rock,

    I am not sure that the organization chart type of blog is possible here.

    The key phrase is "expert". I don't think that we have that many experts, frankly.

    When I am commenting on the markets it is an extension of what I am looking at, if gold is moving I might mention it, I am certainly no expert in gold, or any of these markets that I watch.

    I am not sure how the type of organization you are suggesting would work with our type of community. We come, we go, not to mention all different skill levels and interests.

    I would be interested in what others have to say.

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  21. @I-Man
    That's the book.
    I picked up the jar of sauce today and will check in awhile for emails.

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  22. Thanks, Rock!

    Thats very thoughtful of you.

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  23. Rock,

    How I use patterns is that I have found just a few that work consistently and I use them.

    What is more important is that I use what works for me even though I see other obvious patterns (h&s, i.e.) I take note of them but maybe not actually use them.

    So while I know many patterns I use only a very few.

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  24. @denise(11:07),

    With all due respect to what Rock is saying, I agree with you. Even if you read the blogs, the papers from all over the world, nobody seems to be an expert and correct even 75-80% of the time. The Central Bankers are printing money and Wall St.decides which asset to inflate.

    Just try to be ahead of a steam roller to pick up few pennies.

    ICan

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  25. My strength is combining market internals which tell you the underlying condition of the market with trading tools that you use to actually determine trade location.

    Without these combinations I would be flying blind, buying at tops, selling at bottoms, not understanding market structure and trend.

    Establishing a big picture frame is very important as it forces you to look at the entire market, equities, bonds, commodities, and see how they are trading in relation to each other.

    I make my best trades spotting divergences and then I use various TA devices to enter and exit the trades, on all time frames.

    Spotting divergences is more important to me than pattern recognition.

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  26. ICan,

    Rock has a good idea but I am not sure how to implement it given our community.

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  27. In my opinion I think that people have to develop their own set of trading/investing rules and methodology as what works well for me might not work well for someone else.

    I know a very successful trader who will look at the same markets and not see what I see, even though we have the same skill sets. His strength is in other areas (fearless risk taker combined with years of experience) than mine. I could not do what he does and he cannot do what I do, which is a lesson to everyone out there.

    Self reliance is best.

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  28. I like Gann's rules:


    WD Gann's 28 Trading Rules


    Never risk more than 10% of your trading capital in a single trade.

    Always use stop-loss orders.

    Never overtrade.

    Never let a profit run into a loss.

    Don 't enter a trade if you are unsure of the trend.

    Never buck the trend.

    When in doubt, get out, and don't get in when in doubt.

    Only trade active markets.

    Distribute your risk equally among different markets.

    Never limit your orders. Trade at the market.

    Don't close trades without a good reason.

    Extra monies from successful trades should be placed in a separate account.

    Never trade to scalp a profit.

    Never average a loss.

    Never get out of the market because you have lost
    patience or get in because you are anxious from waiting.

    Avoid taking small profits and large losses.

    Never cancel a stop loss after you have placed the trade.

    Avoid getting in and out of the market too often.

    Be willing to make money from both sides of the market.

    Never buy or sell just because the price is low or high.

    Pyramiding should be accomplished once it has crossed resistance levels and broken zones of distribution.

    Pyramid issues that have a strong trend.

    Never hedge a losing position.

    Never change your position without a good reason.

    Avoid trading after long periods of success or failure.

    Don't try to guess tops or bottoms.

    Don't follow a blind man's advice.

    Reduce trading after the first loss; never increase.

    Avoid getting in wrong and out wrong; or getting in right and out wrong. This is making a double mistake.

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  29. @Rock,

    Your "M" pattern - EPI and FXI


    ICan

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  30. Patterns and Short term tradesFebruary 9, 2011 at 11:56 AM

    Rock – One of the things you said this morning “Over the last year, almost all of the short trades lost money. That says, don’t use patterns to go contrary to the market direction” really stuck with me as that has been me over the last year.

    Because I am still very much a novice, I figured go with what was easy (Using “easy” as a relative term) If the pattern says “xyz” then you have a good chance “abc” will happen.

    I realize every market is different and I am sure there are a handful of people who have been able to make money using patterns, but about 3-4 months ago, I started to realize that is NOT a good strategy, for today’s market.

    Maybe things will change someday and make patterns more viable for short term trading, but those conditions to not apply in today’s market

    Thanks for your input.

    Mutt

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  31. Rock - you're off to a good start this morning ;-)

    From the earlier topic; I don't have a strong opinion on anything other than we treat each other with respect. Which I think we do a pretty good job of most of the time.

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  32. @ Rock

    Do any loading up a few minutes ago?

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  33. Macro-man has a good recipe today.

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  34. Will this be a beach ball day, or will we break to new lows today?

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  35. Huge volume earlier suggests that the beach ball might come into play.

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  36. Its a great day for the beach. We dont get pullbacks like this often.

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  37. @dss,

    Hope Jeff is ok. We had 3 snow storms in a week.

    Saskatchewan wind chill weather -50C. Cold here too.

    ICan

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  38. re,Patterns:I've never been much interested in patterns. Actually, triangles are the only ones I've ever tried to trade.

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  39. Cobra made a good call over the weekend. Held his view. One of his commenter, Uempel, great chart.


    ICan

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  40. Yes, where is Manny today? He is used to much worse weather than we are, but it is really cold here today. I am sure that the weather up in Canada is equally as brutal as MN.

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  41. Weak overall ticks might put a lid on any big rally attempt. Needs to push through the 1318 level and stay there.

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  42. I'm still a rookie trader though (2years+), and still looking to make it to the 10% of profitable traders.

    Therefore, I'm still at the experiencing stage.

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  43. I've been trying many different systems, mixing the various TA tools out there, and then moving on as it wasn't conclusive. Maybe I'll give patterns a shot sometimes, who knows.

    Currently working with the most basic tools: support/resistance/trendlines, backed by volume for confirmation (and RSI, but to a lesser degree).

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  44. @I,

    Good to see you here. Will learn from your experience for sure.

    ICan

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  45. Wolfie,

    That is the best way to learn, look at everything and use what works and makes the most sense to you.

    When someone explains how they use TA, patterns, systems or methodology I always try to see how it works, what it is based upon, and how it works at market extremes or periods of consolidation. After a while it doesn't take long to figure out who knows their stuff and who doesn't. Like Jeff Cooper, knows his stuff but I have never known anyone who can make money using his methods, and like many in his line of business he probably makes a great deal of money peddling his books, and services.

    Also, many of the most successful of the known trading community never reveal their best set ups.

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  46. Jeff is one of my mentors... He does really well, but his methods are very hard to explain in a way that makes sense.

    That was Gann's problem too.

    How do you explain something that feels overwhelmingly complex, but at the same time is so simple that a child could understand it?

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  47. Another thought about patterns is that I think TA traders use "official" patterns, without knowing.

    You know, this kind of set up that seems familiar to you. When you spot it on a chart,you get this feeling that you know how to trade it.

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  48. I could show any of you what my charts look like, and the simple math that I do to get my pivot points and time windows...

    But if you dont do the work yourself with the geometry and the calculator, you will not understand it.

    Its like you said earlier, two people can look at the exact same chart, and reach completely different conclusions.

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  49. Thank you, ICan. The feeling is mutual.

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  50. Basically, I think what I describe is one benefit of experience.

    I believe these patterns that a trader gathers along the way, through some process running in the background of his brain, prove more useful than someone else's magic patterns which he doesn't develop a feel for.

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  51. Jeff Cooper and I use a lot of the same techniques, but we still generate different forecasts based on the work.

    So its tricky.

    And WS, your last one is spot on.

    It is a collective memory of sorts, that we all trade from.

    Stare at charts long enough, and you begin to feel them living and breathing.

    I believe that the more you focus on price exclusively, the more the rest will fall into place. People like to make this stuff a lot harder and more complicated than it really is.

    It reminds me of skateboarding.

    I cant tell anyone how I learned to ollie, but my muscles still know how it feels... I could jump on a board right now after not skating in years and pop a nice ollie... not because I'm a good skater, but because my muscles have a memory.

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  52. I-Man - yes, it's very nice to have you here!

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  53. @Denise:thanks for the feedback.

    @Rastaman: I second I Can feeling. Great to share this blog with you.

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  54. Remember that when you're all sick of the I in a few weeks.

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  55. And thank you, of course.

    I just crave conversation about trading, and hearing other peoples experiences.

    Being a daytrader is lonely shit sometimes.

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  56. Anyone seen this yet?

    WIKILEAKS: PEAK OIL IS REAL

    I’ll let the experts on oil decipher how real this threat is, but I think the fact that US officials are actively discussing the potential of seeing peak oil in the coming 10 years gives real credence to the theory. I’ve highlighted pertinent portions of the 4 cables released (via the Guardian):

    1. (C) SUMMARY: On November 20, 2007, CG and Econoff met with Dr. Sadad al-Husseini, former Executive Vice President for Exploration and Production at Saudi Aramco. Al-Husseini, who maintains close ties to Aramco executives, believes that the Saudi oil company has oversold its ability to increase production and will be unable to reach the stated goal of 12.5 million b/d of sustainable capacity by 2009. While stating that he does not subscribe to the theory of “peak oil,” the former Aramco board member does believe that a global output plateau will be reached in the next 5 to 10 years and will last some 15 years, until world oil production begins to decline. Additionally, al-Husseini expressed the view that the recent surge in oil prices reflects the underlying reality that global demand has met supply, and is not due to artificial market distortions. END SUMMARY.

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  57. I-Man, I can imagine! I'd really miss the social interaction. Well if anything, we're always here ;-)

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  58. And Rock - 61! Not too shabby my friend, not too shabby ;-)

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  59. @Iman, re Skateboarding analogy: except that in addition to this innate memory, there's also an intellectual process at play in trading (I think).

    But yeah, biggest obstacle with successful trading may be a tendency to over-rationalize.

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  60. An illustration that I keep in mind about the dangers of "over-rationalizing", is a book which I haven't read but which synopsis tells it all:

    "We like to think not only that mathematicians are smarter than the rest of us. (...) As the author relates in this funny, insightful little volume about attempts to bring order and science to the free-for-all that is the stock market, he himself was once a big investor (in WorldCom). Despite strong evidence to sell, he desperately hung on to his stock as the price plummeted, proving that a head for numbers doesn't always translate to Wall Street know-how.".
    A Mathematician Plays the Stock Market

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  61. If we were to compile all the stuff about trading on this blog, we could possibly publish a book and change our jobs to "day-bloggers about trading".;)

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  62. Afternoon all! Wow, what a busy morning. Had an early networking seminar breakfast downtwon (minus 5 out driving to that, not pleasant) and then the morning has been just crazy since then. Trying to catch up. What's the word here?

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  63. As far as being an "expert", I would admit that I am one on "nothing" at all (hack of a few trades, master of none). If you don't mind Mondays being about that topic, then I'll take my best shot every week! ;-)

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  64. Manny - everyone was worried you got caught in that next big storm coming ;-)

    Otherwise, same ole same ole, more beach ball.

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  65. @I: I'm not a "trader" by any means, but I hear you on the "loneliness" of working from one's home. Was nice to get out in the real world for that breakfast this morning. Sometimes I feel a little like boy (or Mannwich) in a bubble in my basement office cave. Just me and the pooch. It's good to get out amongst real peeps sometimes. Not that we're not "real" here, but you know what I mean.

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  66. I figured as much, Thor. I'm not even that compelled to check the markets anymore as much as I used to, since it seems to be the same thing virtually every day. Maybe that's a sign that a top is forming? Maybe not? Who knows?

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  67. Wow, going to break 40 here this weekend! Looks like a little thaw finally coming. I think this latest cold spell is the last really bad one for the winter. At least I hope so.

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  68. Manny - I'll bet you're glad to see Winter coming to an end. Spring has already started here - Daffodils and tulips coming up and the cherry trees in blossom.

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  69. What Denise Said x 10February 9, 2011 at 2:19 PM

    Shut up Thor :p

    Although I have to admit, it's not that bad over here.

    Mangy Mutt

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  70. Being shut in with the cold and many feet of snow makes me cranky.

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  71. Denise - Weather was one of the reasons why we moved, we lived in central Washington and you always knew what season you were in. Which was very nice during the spring and fall.

    But during the summer it would get over 100 and stay that way for weeks and on a good night it would cool down to 80.

    During the winter sometimes it would start to snow in Nov and it would stick around until about mid Feb and it would get below freezing and stay that way for weeks.

    So when we decided to move we decided someplace with more moderate weather. It got to almost a 100 over here last year, but that only lasted a couple days and we got maybe 2" of snow this year but it was gone within a couple days.

    But I saw you giving Thor a bad time and figured.... Why not pile it on :)

    So SHUT up again Thor :)

    Mutt

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  72. Yikes There is the EgytianFebruary 9, 2011 at 3:03 PM

    Hey Dastro - I hope all is well for you and you had a good Strike.

    Mutt

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  73. Rock
    Thomas Bulkowski has books regarding chart patterns.
    What I liked about this guy was his no-nonsense approach because he check trades in his historical database of 30 years and tells the success % of those rates and ranked the patterns accordind to their reliability.
    Dan

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  74. Mutt yes I was Trying to skateboard the pyramids, but oh boy now I'll need medical leave till the next strike.
    Dan

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  75. Feb 13 is the day that I.m waiting for because is Sunday friday 11 or Monday 14 maybe starts some acceleration.
    Dan

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  76. "Fed Chief Bernanke downplays inflation risk". marketwatch.com


    Cotton is all time high. Corn, wheat, sugar up.


    ICan

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  77. Sounds like it is getting worse in Egypt:

    Labor Strikes Break Out in Egypt

    Some 8,000 protesters, mainly farmers, set barricades of flaming palm trees in the southern province of Assiut, blocking the main highway and railway to Cairo to complain of bread shortages. They then drove off the governor by pelting his van with stones. Hundreds of slum dwellers in the Suez Canal city of Port Said set fire to part of the governor's headquarters in anger over lack of housing.

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  78. DSS

    House and food, yeap we are starting to get there I guess.
    Dan

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  79. Denise - ooooh, reading now . . . I've been on a bit of an Egypt News holiday this week.

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  80. Nibbled a little on some TLT yesterday. Might continue snacking here.

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  81. Anyone else think we're setting up for a pretty horrific come down off this latest rally? I worry that the longer we go up without any serious pullbacks, the more people are going to start piling in because they think the markets won't go down with their government backstop. I think whether or not there really is a government backstop to equities, or QE and QE2 has had a play in this rally, I think there's substantial belief that it has . . .

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  82. Interesting chart - not a lot of data points, but interesting none the less:

    EEM-EFA

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  83. I'm always worried, Thor (about something). It's what I do.... ;-)

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  84. I-Man - We didn't close red - you'd have won that bet ;-) Good call!

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  85. Thor,

    There is no doubt that this will not end well, when the market breaks hard it never ends well.

    Too many folks trying to get off the train at the same time could start a crash, especially when everyone has an electronic trigger finger all set to go.

    And we have the interesting twist of international players all with their fingers on the same electronic sell buttons. Pretty scary stuff.

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  86. Manny - hahahah, have you and I talked about this before? I'm the same way, I get it from my mother and grandmother. My grandmother always used to say that she worried so much, that if she didn't have something to worry about, she's worry for us!

    Read a fascinating article on worrying years ago - and how mothers pass that on to their children. Women who worry a lot produce chemicals in their body that affect the development of the baby making it more prone to worry as it grows up.

    Luckily, there's a handy little herb for that that's now legal in the State of California. Helps me out a lot :-)

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  87. Another point about patterns, it is not just about pure technical chart points like H&S, Double Tops, etc. patterns can include things as divergences when a certain price point is hit.

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  88. Thor

    A lot of people see this like is imposible to keep going up so relentlessly without a correction including insiders.
    There's not a festive mood like uff..finally we pull us out and lots of optimism because we are back on track to prosperity.

    To me still looks like the wall of worry.
    Dan

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  89. Dan - me too. I was talking about the average Joe on the street though - the Boomers who have their entire 401K's in equities. Not folks who trade on their own.

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  90. Basically, the same folks who bought the line that housing never goes down . . . ;-)

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  91. Herb is good. I-Man has to always be careful not to over-lean on it tho... seen?

    Steady the spliff hand, use judgement in measurement.

    The Rastas puff tougher than most, but the realest Rastas I-Man knows dont smoke it much.

    They are already where they want to be with the medi.

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  92. Rock

    Did the pizza watching football went uhm...well I mean did the pizza was,uhm good...?
    Dan

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  93. @Thor: Yes indeed, we have discussed this topic before. Both of my parents were always chronic-worriers, so I definitely inherited it, but what's strange is since they moved to FL full-time, I hardl EVER hear them overtly worrying anymore. It's almost like it took a move for them to realize that it's finally time to simply enjoy life a bit and not worry so much. Maybe a little regular FL sun helps too? ;-) I don't think it's the weed with them. LOL. Although one never knows!

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  94. I-Man - are there many Rasta's up there in rainy Seattle? I figured that's kind of like the antithesis of the Rasta life ;-)

    I've tried just about every medication that exists for both insomnia and stress, all extremely addictive and none good for you long term. Herb is the best thing I've found. Oddly enough, it's the Sativas that help the most, rather than the Indicas like you'd think. Blends, of course, are always the best.

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  95. Manny - hrmmm, I can totally see that with your parents. A lot of my stress these days is with traffic and having to spend so much time in my car. I love PS for that reason, no traffic at all out there.

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  96. Corey has good charts - TLT today. $88 is critical. Others - Cotton, India's nifty etc.

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  97. Can anyone explain to me how this works. . . .providing money to poor mothers with children is socialism but providing money to defense contractors isn't socialism and can't be cut because it would cost jobs? You mean those jobs are dependent on government spending? That sounds a little fishy.

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  98. Cant speak for Seattle... about 3 hours from I-House.

    But only a few...

    The I has friends far ovah.

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  99. And to be clear, Rasta is I-niversal. Not all Rastas believe that Haile Selassie is the reincarnation of Christ.

    The I is a Christian first, but the spirit is Rasta.

    All Rastas are Christians, but not all who call themselves Christian are Rasta.

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  100. I-man, oh I'm sorry, sheesh, I could have sworn you were in Seattle, my bad!

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  101. I-Man, you should check out Belize, lots of that there, and they speak English - some of the islands off the coast are crazy nice. Not what you'd expect in Central America.

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  102. @dss,(3:59)

    That chart is interesting. Trendline was about to break down before BB announced QE2. Now it's breaking down again.

    What will keep Ems up after this round of QE2 ends in June? Feels like 2008.

    ICan

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  103. What a different man Bill Gates has turned into. And such a contrast to Steve Jobs. One is busy trying to save the world, while the other one is busying to trying to take it over.

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